Are we now demanding an entry in the AIP defining the time allowance made by each airport for disembarkation of GA, prior to locking up and going home?
I think he want AIP to make sure open & closing time are clearly defined? AFAIK, only Spanish AIP seems to make such distinction
If you want more fun, I just discovered that “customs times” in France are “operation times” in some places and not “ATS times” or “AD times”, this was not clear at all in AIP, actually, I have flown days & nights and I never heard this before 
I just figure this as I wanted to depart at 6am when ATS opens their tower last month and was told no, so I had to go via Lille (LFQQ), the other choices available for early departure would be Ostend or LeBourget
In most airports in France, I am not aware of “AD times”, the only restriction for early or late flying is sunrise, sunset or PCL availability, maybe only two airports have closing times: Quiberon & Toussus, what else? only airports with mandatory handling have opening times and night surcharges (at least 100€ for that “follow me car” and “marshaller”)
This made me look up the opening times for the public airports in Norway (those in the AIP)
Then I find this:
Universal Time Coordinated (UTC) and the Gregorian calendar are used by air navigation services and publications issued by the Norwegian Aeronautical Information Service. Reporting of time is expressed to the nearest minute, e.g. 12:40:35 is reported as 1241.
Norwegian standard local time (winter time) is UTC + 1 hour. Norwegian daylight saving time is UTC + 2 hours.
Times in AIP Norway are published as UTC related to Norwegian standard time (winter time).
To obtain UTC time during the daylight saving period, one hour must be subtracted from UTC times published in AIP Norway.
Example:
0345 UTC (0445 local time) shall be read as 0245 UTC (0445 local time) during the daylight saving period.
Why make it easy when it can be made 100% cryptic
Actually lot of countries does that, local time stays the same (1900LT in summer & winter) but UTC wiggles with time savings
Ibra wrote:
Actually lot of countries does that, local time stays the same (1900LT in summer & winter) but UTC wiggles with time savings
Yes, but that presentation makes it harder to actually understand at a glance. If they mean constant opening times in LT, then put them in LT (plus maybe an extra entry in the general aerodrome info, along with the deviation, geoid undulation, etc giving the difference between Z and LT), rather than putting Z times that are wrong half of the year and need to be “autocorrected” by the reader…
I have never thought about it, but it explains why I seldom got this right
GA_Pete wrote:
I don’t need an airport operator to calculate for me the latest time I can comfortably arrive, get my crap sorted and depart the premises.
How could they? I take 20 mins, others take 5.
At anything large enough to describe itself as an ‘airport’ the limiting factor on how long it takes to leave the facility post-landing is them, not me.
I’m not demanding an extra entry in the AIP. I’m just pointing out that the only logical and workable interpretation of publishing operating hours e.g 0800-2000 is that one may take off or land at any point between those times. If we follow your interpretation then what’s next, denying a takeoff at 1957 because you might not have left the CTR by 2000?
It’s no concern of mine what time an airport pays its staff until. No well-run customer-facing business pays its staff until the doors close and not for a minute longer. See my examples above – if a pub/bar/restaurant is open until some published time then that’s the last time you can start a transaction. It’s not the time you must be out the door because they’ll be locking up behind you. If I loiter in a supermarket carrying a basket of goods until their published closing time then they don’t summarily eject me from the premises the moment the clock ticks over – they usher me towards the checkout and ask me to pay and leave, that process taking as long as it takes, perhaps beyond the published time.
If we follow your interpretation then what’s next, denying a takeoff at 1957 because you might not have left the CTR by 2000
You can make it worse: you can’t land at 1959 because you did not allow for 15min go-around or missed (and 45min hold before divert), so you have to plan on landing at 1959, you need to send flight plan for arrival at 1859, departure at xxx and you need to start at xxx…
I also recall at North Weald, they used to ask flight plans from France to be sent for 1830LT arrival while local flights can plan 1900LT arrival
Graham wrote:
See my examples above – if a pub/bar/restaurant is open until some published time then that’s the last time you can start a transaction.
I don’t think there is any sharp definition here. Lots of restaurants are inside malls. When the mall closes, it closes. You have to leave. The restaurants are open until the mall closes, but they will start closing new orders well before that, depending on what they serve.
My understanding of a restaurant closing time is when you have to be out of the door. But then, topically, the kitchen (that is, your ability to get new food) will close earlier than that. In some (but definitely not all) “upscale” restaurant-hotels, the staff smilingly waits for you to leave, even after the closing time. Which IMHO creates the “moral” burden on you to kind of respect that time, not to overburden them.
Pig Wrote
If the airport closes at 8 and you are off the premises at 7.59 then I agree. Absolutely. But if you’re late you’re late. He left the building 15 minutes late. Someone has to lock the door so it is your problem.
No. If ATC personnel are required, it’s reasonable to expect a possible charge. If it’s just due to some bloke who is locking up; that is ridiculous. It would be implicit that such an employee is neither required/expected to stop working immediately on a number on a clock.
It is due to mindsets such as yours that the UK has the worst service levels and pricing of any G7 country. A little too much “worker bee” factory employee or military thinking.
