How bad does GA suck in Switzerland?

Frans wrote:

Those customs forms are not sent directly to customs in Switzerland, but first to the aerodrome office. They need to confirm it and forward it to customs. That’s why you need to phone the aerodrome almost always after submitting the form.

Why should airport management care? This seems to only create more bureaucracy.

Annemasse was flyable directly from the UK for many years, until they pulled Immigration a few years ago.

In 2017 (as I said), everybody who is following this should know it’s no longer ok for extra-Schengen but it’s not clear on AIP even as of today that it’s intra-Schengen only, one British pilot did not get that, he kept flying Biggin-Annemasse until he was physically told not to do it again few months ago (he was ex-EuroGA member and very experienced, probably well versed on all this, he flew GA for like a half century)

I would not be surprised if this happens on UK-Switzerland but this now is tricky, the only choices I had last time were Sion, Lausanne and Lugano

Intra-Schengen one has more choices things are not as obvious as it seems on how this can be arranged for visiting aircraft (or maybe one just need to blindly trust airport management )

Well, LFLI is not in Switzerland last time I looked, but the AIP data states it has Customs but does not mention Immigration (which France calls “Police” in the AIP) so one should assume Immigration is not available. This is extremely unusual for France, where nearly all airports have neither, or both.

I don’t know who that mysterious guy was but I know one who dropped GA and bought a boat, not long after Anemasse (where he had a chalet) became unflyable from the UK; sometime before brexit which anyway affected only Customs.

The Swiss AIP does not use “Police” (which is meaningless unless you “are in the know”); they call it properly

the only choices I had last time were Sion, Lausanne and Lugano

Why?

I was just giving example

This is extremely unusual for France, where nearly all airports have neither, or both.

That is wrong, you are aware that customs notice is available intra-Schengen in almost every airport in France?

I fly from non-POE in France to Switzerland, so I fairly know what I am talking about (customs airports >> immigration airports), I just learned here, that I can do the same in Switzerland

Why?

I think they are the cheapest one in this list,

you are aware that customs notice is available intra-Schengen in every airport in France…

All of the EU, new reg, previous threads, but few are willing to test it, especially in Germany and presumably Switzerland too.

Intra-Schengen, I think you will find that GA airfields in eastern France, northern Italy, southern Germany and inside Switzerland had some concessions and arrangements (“no goods” or “local guys”) well before that due to obvious geographical proximity reasons

At least in France, strictly speaking Megeve, Annemasse, Amberieu, and maybe Bellegrade….are not customs airfields (at least since 2017 or even before) but they are OK for Switzerland (with PN of course), the list of “customs airports” where you can tax an aircraft or goods is here:

https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021-10/List%20of%20International%20Union%20Airports.pdf

What the new EU law does, it makes applicable in every country and airport, also it makes these arrangements legally available to visitors, especially when you don’t speak the local language

Apparently, Switzerland will have to mirror similar EU law 2020/877 soon (or has one already) but I have not digged the legal texts yet…

Why should airport management care? This seems to only create more bureaucracy.

Either bureaucracy (no or more paperwork) or handling (they have C+I by their b***), in first case, aerdrome management don’t want international traffic even if it’s allowed by rules or in their certificate as they dont want “to get into troubles or paperwork” (like what Frans said), in second case, the first thing operation & handling do when an airport goes from public hands to private hands is to remove “C+I contact” from VAC or AIP-AD2, I have seen this happening, then you can only deal with them if you want “customs service”, they could charge whatever they like for that !

Peter wrote:

Does CH have any “exit Customs” airports (meaning Customs and Immigration available when exiting CH) nowadays? It used to e.g. LSPV.

There is nowadays no such thing as exit-only airfields for both immigration and customs in Switzerland. There are however some airfields, like Gruyères or Beromünster, how only offer customs (Intra-Schengen) for outbound (exit) flights. This is however only a rule of those particular aerodromes. They could also do inbound flights, but they won’t, like airfields that don’t want to deal with international flights for visitors (non-home-based pilots) at all.

If you need immigration: Bern and Sion are the cheapest options and only require a valid FPL. Lausanne, Les Eplatures and Grenchen are also still good, but do require a PNR to customs in addition to FPL. Lugano is neither cheap nor expensive, but they have limited opening hours. St. Gallen is also doable up to 1.000 kg MTOW, but it gets expensive above. Everything else is more or less expensive.

Ibra wrote:

However, I still can’t see how a “resident based pilot” there can fly “foreign aircraft” (not CH-good) even if AD management thinks it’s OK? customs will not be pleased without paperwork and notice, they may require using another airport or close their eyes but that’s different…

Correct. As Swiss resident, you can only import or export a foreign aircraft on those small airfields if:
1. The owner of the foreign aircraft is an aeroclub.
2. The foreign aircraft already paid Swiss taxes.
In any other case, the pilot with Swiss residency need to import and export a foreign aircraft via an airport with official customs status, like Zurich, Bern or Geneva.

Ibra wrote:

Apparently, Switzerland will have to mirror similar EU law 2020/877 soon (or has one already) but I have not digged the legal texts yet…

Didn’t hear anything about it in Switzerland yet, but it would be very welcome if Switzerland would apply that rule too!

Briefly what does this 2020/877 law says? My mind was blown reading the docs I found with google :)

Is swiss going to mirror ?

I am relocating to Lugano area shortly and will be bringing my plane to CH. Currently looking my option how to import it, pay taxes or is there some way to avoid them like AOC etc

Briefly what does this 2020/877 law says?

Article 141, in abscence of customs presence or declaration, the simple act of crossing border automatically puts your means of transport (aircraft) under temporary admission or release regimes for exports or imports

• You still have to deal with clearing other goods but the amounts are not gigantic vs duty & taxes on aircraft

• You still have to deal with prior notification to customs (checking aircraft for smuggling) and various airport permission (they mat not fancy international arrival)

• You still have to deal with immigration, if required, this is more complicated than “it’s intra-Schengen” (e.g. temporary suspensions, pob who are non-EU citizens or non-EU residents can’t travel freely in Schengen…)

PS: some EU countries or even airports had similar concessions for private flights “with no goods” when the aircraft goes on temporary import or export without using “customs designated”, for France see AIP GEN1.2, “customs procedures applicable to aircraft flying unscheduted flights”

Is that font absolutely huge, or does it look ok on some devices?

I am frequently having to fix up images like this.