Thanks @Frans
So in practice they have achieved their goals already, so then what the hell are they on about?
Piggybacking this so I don’t open a separate topic.
Assuming “VFR radiotelephony practical test” (as FOCA calls it) and Flight Radiotelephony Operator’s License (FRTOL) are the same:
I found this where it appears to say a FRTOL is not required to take a EASA PPL Skill test.
Quickly consulting EASA Part FCL It didn’t become more clear.
However looking into EASA FEM Flight Examiner’s Manual , I found on page 4 the requirement to check, among others, that someone taking a PPL Skill Test will be checked, for “Radiotelephony privileges and language proficiency requirements”
While the last part must be the “Language Proficiency Certificate”, my guess now is that “Radiotelephony privileges” refers to a FRTOL.
This is where I got confused, is a FRTOL a requirement to take EASA PPL Skill test?
The UK FRTOL is a national licence that is no longer issued to UK licence holders. Instead, the RT privileges are included in the licence. However, these privileges are not mandatory and licences can be issued without them. Some EASA Member States will accept an RT certificate/licence issued by other countries. IIRC, Austria accepts German RT licences. @Snoopy might comment.
One condition for taking the PPL skill test is that the communications exam paper has been passed. FCL.030.
The language proficiency endorsement is contingent on the use of the radiotelephone:
FCL.055 (a) General. Aeroplane […] pilots required to use the radio telephone shall not exercise the privileges of their licences and ratings unless they have a language proficiency endorsement on their licence in either English or the language used for radio communications involved in the flight. […]
Edit: FCL.050 → FCL.055
Silvaire wrote:
If you want to fly at busy airports and not make a fool of yourself, you learn to talk on the radio. Or alternately fly where little radio usage is required, some mostly Spanish speaking crop dusters I’ve run into come to mind. Pilots figure it out all by themselves without endless, tedious process that would discourage anybody from being a pilot.
A good summary of the difference in general between flying in the US and in Europe. To start, the US is one country and Europe is 27-30 depending on how you count it, with each country a different language and culture. It seems that the only way to find the common denominator in Europe is to complicate everything to the point of discouraging anyone not prepared to suffer the expense and effort of jumping through all the hoops.
ELP is such a good example. The US instigated the ELP with ICAO following the experience at international airports, and then made their implementation imminently pragmatic. Europe picked up on it and made it a nightmare for pilots.
chflyer wrote:
Europe picked up on it and made it a nightmare for pilots.
I really don’t understand big fuss about this topic. For me it’s pretty straightforward and easy to implement:
1. Local flying within your country – national regulation on acceptable communication languages
2. International flying – ELP
3. IFR flying – ELP
I can’t see any nightmare in this.
But that’s not how it’s been implemented in Europe. The nightmare (cost and time) is not using it, rather getting it and keeping it for those without L6. The cost/benefit ratio is simply not there….. just look at the never-ending discussions here about the subject, applicability (or not) for flying into local-language-only airfields, etc, and the confusion between RT and LP.
Renewing your ELP is done once every 4 or 6 years, depending on your level (4/5). How is this such a big hassle and money sink?
just look at the never-ending discussions here about the subject
We do never-ending discussions here on many topics simply because we have excess time.
You can get L4/5/6 in an online test.
At the cost of less than one hour’s flight.
How is this a nightmare ?
And, listening to many fellow pilots, I feel proper use of radio, ahem, shows quite some improvement potential, particularly on weekends with nice weather…
No doubt that some rules are silly. Want a comparison? Look at the public outcry, when some EU-proposal got known to potentially limit driving licenses to (a) five years with retest (b) day only for beginners, (c) maximum weight/power for beginners.
All things we (have to) accept when flying…
ch.ess wrote:
And, listening to many fellow pilots, I feel proper use of radio, ahem, shows quite some improvement potential, particularly on weekends with nice weather…
Yes, but radio technique is different than LP. There are lots of pilots with an L6 ELP, for example, but poor radio technique. It shouldn’t be that way, but one benefit of an IR is that one is pretty much forced to acquire proper radio technique….. not to say that all IFR pilots actually do use it, but far more do than VFR pilots.
