My next aircraft - 150 Knot 4 seater with good range???

Since you are now possibly a bit more in a hurry to find a new airplane… …

…if you are into nice avionics, check out this nice Turbo Arrow. It’s a high time engine though.

Not enough stopwatch/timers for me!

I think your fuel burns are slightly high at FL100, assuming 65%. On all of the types.

The Commander, that performance looks like it is for the 114B. There are a number of variants, which may, or may not, provide the figures. I also think the fuel burn you have for the Arrow, is on the low side. Everything else, looks ok, give or take.

This discussion is a bit like my last post on the Annual cost of flying. If you take the time to realistically drill the numbers, differing images start to appear. In the Bonanza world, everyone appears to have a faster, leaner, more economical version of the type. However, as in life, so many variables at play. In the end, you have what you have.

Again, as you drill the numbers, you then see people flying their type, at differing climb power settings, differing cruise patterns and differing descent profiles, all of which have a bearing on true fuel burn, speed and time.

Friend has a 112TC, I have flown it quite a bit. Good aeroplane, but I would always plan for 140 TAS, others would have it do more.

TB-20 153KTAS 12.5 GPH

I wonder what power setting that is at.

At very low level, say 3000ft, the typical 65% cruise is 2300/2400 rpm, 23" MP, and 11.5 GPH. I get 138kt IAS which is about 140kt TAS. That is peak EGT or just very slightly LOP.

As you fly higher, you can maintain the 140k TAS but the fuel flow goes down and down – up to a point.

I would have to try it but 153kt TAS might be somewhere around 8000ft, full throttle, peak EGT… I would regard 12.5 GPH as an excessive cruise fuel flow in my TB20 and if peak EGT then it is probably 75% of max power. And if not peak EGT then you are wasting fuel.

TAS is a very difficult thing to compare on, because you need altitude and temperature. Salesmen love it… IAS is better because it is a great equaliser.

Two years ago I sold my 260C Comanche which I owned for 13 years. The numbers that I saw at 3000’ were as follow:
23/23 – 65% power
12gl/h
140kts indicated.

Load wise the max weight is 3200lbs, the aircraft empty (well equipt) was 1911lbs. This allowed me to fly with full tanks, 4 adults and weekend luggage. I have never had grass runway issues but had avoided runways below 700m or rough runways.

The aircraft is very stable and easy to fly, however you have to pay attention to your airspeed when landing, otherwise you will float for ever and a day. The cabin is wide and comfortable, no shoulder to shoulder issues.

The aircraft is reliable, well built with no major maintanence issues. The major ADs are the gear 1000h AD in which you have to check all bolts and bushings for wear and the new tail AD that requires inspection/replacement of the elevator horn. Saying that, if you buy a Comanche make sure that the person that checks it for you knows Comanches as they differ from other Pipers, if not it can be costly. I am not aware of parts that can’t be obtained but some might demand a bit of a search. If you want more speed (180-190kts), range or payload look at the Comanche 400. The 400 will give you performances of 400, 260, 250 and 180 Comanches, all you have is to pull the throttle.

Enjoy whatever you buy

Which C210 model is that? 150kts @ 10k sound like one of the very early ones, essentially stretched 182s with a strut. The later models are faster. On the C182 the figures sound about right, although I haven’t flown a FG 182 in a while and memory is a bit hazy. The RG is significantly faster. And yes, I do regularly fly in the 10k region.

However, as Peter says, comparing TAS isn’t really that meaningful.

Except the change to a Mode-S transponder, what would be necessary to get her IFR rated (on her current G registration) so we can do our EIR/CB-IR on the aircraft?

Malte, I would first of all put a mode S transponder which can work together with your GNS430 and do ADSB, such as the Trig TT31. Quite cheap and also very good.

Other than that, you might want to consider either a S-TEC System 30 Alt or 60PSS to augment your Wing Levler and give your autopilot an altitude hold (30 Alt) or a full pitch channel (60PSS). You’d have to talk to S-Tec however if there is an STC.

If I am looking at the right airplane on PC, it is about as nice a HR100 as I’ve ever seen.

Thanks Urs.

Do I want an altitude hold or do I need one for IR flying? The question is, if IFR registration/certification puts another 10k ontop of the price, other aircraft might be way cheaper. (We are 4 Pilots. two of us are satisfied with the EIR, two want to do IR departures and arrivals. It would just be occasional for any of us to fly solo IFR). The range available is astonishing. Although she’s a bit on the slow side for the engine.

Do I want an altitude hold or do I need one for IR flying?

Sorry, but first of all it’s IFR flying. IR=Instrument Rating. IFR=Instrument Flight Rules.

If it’s a D-reg., you need to have ALT hold for being 100% legal when solo IFR.
Other than that, having ALT hold is really useful for IFR.

The question is, if IFR registration/certification puts another 10k ontop of the price, other aircraft might be way cheaper.

I think it is almost impossible, in Europe, to touch the avionics, do anything about them, get them IFR checked and be done with less than 10k…

two of us are satisfied with the EIR,

Interesting. Nobody has got the EIR yet. Still, your partners are satisfied with it…