Who decides what language must be used at which airport?

That sounds more like Germany than France!
And even the Germans have their ways to get around the rules that they don’t like!

In Germany they probably understand English. In France it’s less common. In France it’s not about binding the rules. It’s just that usually people don’t know that there are rules.

In Germany they probably understand English. In France it’s less common. In France it’s not about binding the rules. It’s just that usually people don’t know that there are rules.

The simplistic difference between Italy, Germany, France and England:

1) In England everything is allowed, except if it’s banned.

2) In Italy everything is allowed, even if it’s banned.

3) In France everything is banned, except if it’s allowed.

4) In Germany, everything is banned, even if it’s allowed…..

I like the above

However I think that from the aviation POV the more significant difference is what can be achieved purely if you speak the local language. IOW, how much transparency there is in behaviour, especially corporate behaviour.

And in Europe transparency reduces the further you travel south.

In say the UK and Germany things happen pretty much as they are written; in the AIP for us pilots Same in Scandinavia and Benelux.

Further south, it is more and more based on who you know and on how you use the language. Without local language, you can forget getting favours in most places south of the Alps – except in former Yugoslavia (and probably the other ex communist countries generally ) where they just usually want to help you and don’t expect you to speak their particular dialect I suppose it also depends on how proud/patriotic the people are and how relevant they think their country is. The use of English is much more accepted in the ex-com countries, whereas in the “old” countries like France, Spain and Italy they see absolutely no reason why they should speak English (even if the particular person can do so). And this is directly reflected in the difficulty of doing business there too, though Germany is very very hard too in their near absolute demands for local (German speaking) representation.

Then you get the odd ones out like Greece where they just speak good English and everything just happens… well, if the person turned up for work in the first place, because the 10% bonus for turning up on time has been scrapped, along with the 10% bonus for knowing how to switch on the PC.

And as I often mention, even at the biggest international airport there is NO requirement for anybody on the ground to speak English. The handling agent will – because English = €€€ in their pocket, very directly. But you can really easily find yourself at an airport in Spain or Italy and just simply spend an hour trying to find somebody who can show you the door to get out airside, or to get off airside.

Aviation wise, I see no real difference in transparency and easy of flying between e.g. Germany and Croatia or the Czech Republic. Greece is also pretty much hassle free with things working as advertised (the hassle only starts in the taxi ). Poland is also a complete no-brainer.

I have no problem going to whichever country. There is always a solution, even when they don’t speak English. If I want German standards, I stay in Germany but that would be too boring 99% of the people show a lot of sympathy for a foreigner visiting their country with an airplane and are helpful.

English should be spoken worldwide but occasionally you will find that pilots and ATC use their own language, very common in France.

@Amy, that is a bold statement. Do you have any reference?

Spanish is very common in Spain.
French is very common in France
German is common in Germany – particularly among GA.
Swedish is common in Sweden among GA (they even have their own very particular phonetic alphabet – e.g. Sigurd-Erik for SE)
Norwegian is rarely heard in Norway, but allowed
In South America Spanish and Portuguese are widespread

Local languages are not used occasionally and I assume that the farther south you go, the more common it is.

You will find it in the Air Law Section of the ICAO document, the wording is something along the lines,

> pilot uses English to an ATC then ATC must respond in English’. This
> wording allows locals to use local speak, as you will hear in TMAs and
> even in the airways even across Europe or you can look at the following or any instructional training manual for the CPL.
http://www.aviation-esl.com/ICAO_English.htm

I have heard that the French once tried to migrate to English only as an “experiment” at one airport (Lyon) but that this utterly failed. The pilots just resisted talking in English on the radio to their own French controllers and visa-versa.

Fying in at night in France I usually land without the tower operational and have to rely on A/A communication. At that time I have to speak French and I can remember that I was reprimanded once (at Lyon-Bron) for not doing so. They had listened to the tape the next morning and when paying for my landing fee on departure, they told me not to speak English anymore. I was landing at 2 at night and there was absolutely nobody on the radio or flying circuits …

So, since I do not speak French I rely to some simple words such as “Finale piste …” etc. At least I was speaking French, but would not be able to hear what others in the circuit or on an approach would say back to me, except that my wife speaks French fluently and could translate. But then, at night after 01.00 hours LT you don’t hear others on the radio as you come in.

The other time I have to rely on speaking French on the radio is during our Coupe Breitling race competition where we are the only foreign team participating and we have to touch-and-go 100 airfields within 24 hours all across France. For this matter I take along native French speaking Belgian pilots for their RT only in our Dutch team. We do the touch-and-go at a lot of very small airstrips in France and can say that the French speaking RT team member in the right seat improves our safety as a lot of time the French on those very small untoward airfields do not speak a word of English.

Finally, I think English should be allowed and THE aviation language all over. It is strange that you HAVE to speak a local language to be able to land at a specific aerodrome in Europe.

those very small untoward airfields

meaning untowered , perhaps?

It is strange that you HAVE to speak a local language to be able to land at a specific aerodrome in Europe.

I am sure many of the locals will think the exact reverse: they will wonder how anybody can be allowed to operate a radio in their airspace without mastering the local language. I can see both sides. Also, I keep on repeating that many fields in France do not mandate use of R/T, and several do not even expect one to: if you come in in a correct way but without ever transmitting a single syllable, you will be quite allright and nobody will wink an eye. There’s only difficulties at certain “mid-range” fields.

Above all it seems to me that if, as an outsider, one wishes to visit place X, one has to live with and indeed comply with the rules of place X, however ridiculous they may seem. If you can’t or won’t, go/fly elsewhere. Which makes me avoid certain bits of airspace, such as the Netherlands, Austria, and Spain.

BTW if you don’t like France, try Spain, or Russia!

IMHO an airport capable of accepting foreign traffic should speak English – during all times when it is thus capable.

Anything else is a farce.

One could argue about whether it should be English or Swahili or even Czech (that would be fun!) but the fact is that English is the standard international language in aviation.

It’s not exactly hard, in a country the size of France, to dig out a person to stick up into the tower who can speak a bit of English. After all, most non-UK ATCOs cannot do conversational English anyway, especially in France. Conversational English is a lot harder.

If there is nobody in the tower, the argument gets more tricky but how can the airport pretend to accept foreign traffic then?

“foreign” traffic is a farcical term by itself, in today’s Europe. And especially in this forum which always intended to be pan-European.

And it IS hard enough to find anyone to operate the field frequency, especially in countries like Germany with its ridiculous Flugleiterpflicht – we have read in another thread how hard it is on German fields to find volunteers to operate the radio, no need to increase their legal requirements. Excuse me for repeating: if you can’t comply, fly elsewhere! But don’t tell the a/d operators what they should do, most have their hands more than full with more binding requirements.