Stickandrudderman wrote:
I did spin training at Ultimate high a few years ago and I firmly believe that without that training I would not have been able to recover from an inadvertent spin some years later. In fact having recovered from the first spin I went and tried again (doing stall tests after an AOA installation) and again entered a spin. The second recovery was much quicker than the first……The cause was an incorrectly calculated c of g by myself. Not only did ILAFFT, but I learned that I quite enjoy it.
That’s impressive, and I can imagine how that feels now, in retrospect, ILAFFT wise.
Peter wrote:
to get into a spin in any “normal” plane you need to have seriously mismanaged things
I think that’s true for most mass production trainers designed from the mid-50s onward, flown in what might be termed ‘transport mode’ so I see where the thought is coming from, but I’d feel awkward limiting my definition of “normal” in that way for fear of giving the wrong impression. A Piper Cub, a perfectly normal aircraft flown in a perfectly normal way by I think anybody’s definition is not forgiving to that extent. Lots and lots and lots of people have inadvertently spun Cubs, and other common types. Certainty if a instructor is teaching somebody to fly in a Cub or similar, they’d better know how to extract themselves from a spin.
I’d agree for an Ercoupe or a Vari-Eze 
Re enjoyment of aerobatics, spins make me feel ill and I don’t like feeling ill… but the occasional lazy roll does help fight boredom on a long cross country.
Silvaire the Super Cub is very benign and due to being approved for spins in the utility category only, spin instruction in the SC is unusual – unless you’re instructor is very very svelte. The SC is reportedly less friendly if spun with aft CG outside the utility envelope.
The ‘moose stall’ causes the stall spin statistics for the SC – as many of the pilots who have encountered these have been very experienced, and the SC stall characteristics are very benign, there is a school of thought that the incidents have been caused by the ‘plane flying through its own wake, usually after the second or third orbit of the ’moose’.
I think the Cub is more forgiving than the Luscombe in which I learned to fly, but I used the Cub as an example because a yellow J3 is as ‘normal’ an aircraft as there is (in many people’s minds anyway) and if you spun a J3 unintentionally, while doing relatively normal things, you wouldn’t be quite the first pilot to do so.
Agreed about slow flight through turbulence, flying a ‘rudder’ plane, potentially with the ball momentarily uncentered in a turn. I hadn’t heard the term Moose Stall before (!) but there have been plenty of Circling a Pretty Girl’s House stalls that caused stall/spin accidents.
I would thoroughly recommend going spinning with a suitable instructor/aircraft combo.
… and parachute! How do they say “more people get killed during spin training than in actual spins” (similar to the asymmetric training in twins). I wrote above that I never did a single turn of spin in a powered aircraft but I did some spins and aerobatics in gliders. Wearing a parachute…
I dont think the risk of spinning is over stated, but I do think the reasons for the risk is misunderstood.
I think the danger arises from spinning the “wrong” aircraft and using the “wrong” technique.
Many aerobatic aircraft will spin in a very predictable way, and even when the spin is unusual will recover if the approriate actions are taken. Some aircraft do not meet these criteria. So a combination of spin accidents in aircraft that dont meet these criteria and poor technique suggests the risk is higher than it should be.
what_next wrote:
So it does not seem to be an EASA requirement.
If you look at Part FCL then you will find it is an EASA requirement for Instructor Courses.
FCL.930
LONG BRIEFINGS AND AIR EXERCISES
Note: though exercise 11b is not required for the PPL(A) course, it is a requirement for the FI
course.
EXERCISE 11b: SPIN RECOVERY AT THE DEVELOPED STAGE
(a) Long briefing objectives:
(1) spin entry;
(2) recognition and identification of spin direction;
(3) spin recovery;
(4) use of controls;
(5) effects of power or flaps (flap restriction applicable to type);
(6) effect of the CG upon spinning characteristics;
(7) spinning from various flight attitudes;
(8) aeroplane limitation;
(9) safety checks.
(b) Air exercise:
(1) aeroplane limitations;
(2) safety checks;
(3) spin entry;
(4) recognition and identification of the spin direction;
(5) spin recovery (reference to flight manual);
(6) use of controls;
(7) effects of power or flaps (restrictions applicable to aeroplane type);
(8) spinning and recovery from various flight attitudes.
And as an Instructor you are required to be able to teach it, not just demonstrate it.
Some EU States are known for not doing the job properly.
Always read the AFM before spinning an aircraft
Most aircraft will take at least a full turn before they autorotate, so recovery from the incipient condition should be achievable
If fully developed SSR
Symptoms High rate of descent, high rate of rotation, slow fluctuating airspeed
Identify the spin direction needle not ball!
Apply full rudder in the opposite direction of the spin.
Ailerons neutral -very important on some types
You may need to hold the elevator aft to allow the rudder to work, pause, 2, 3 then move the stick briskly forward until rotation stops. It only stops when the wings are unstalled.
Centralise the rudder the moment rotation stops, this may be very sudden and can easily result in reversing the direction of rotation.
Ease out of the dive.
If you have not seen this demonstrated you probably have little chance of pulling it off.
Fuji_Abound wrote:
I think the danger arises from spinning the “wrong” aircraft and using the “wrong” technique.
The technique will be common for single engine certified aircraft: Decrease AoA to recover stall, while stopping the rotation, then recovering the dive. The nuances of how that is achieved can differ from type to type a little. For example, when recovering a spin in a Cessna 206 at aft C of G will require the “brisk” forward movement of the control column, slow pitch down will really extend the recovery. I recall the first time I test spun a Cessna 206, my recovery was sloppy, then I recalled “brisk” and tried again – much better.
All the aircraft I have spin tested have recovered with “normal” application of control for recovery, as required for their certification. However, that recovery may be very demanding, with little room between the recovery speed and G, and the limits. Much more that a parachute, I want a G meter available. During my spin testing of a Cessna Grand Caravan, the spin was fine, but the resulting dive required speed at Vne, and 2.5G. That does not allow much room for error.
The only spin I have flown where I thought to myself “I’m never doing that again!” was as instructed by Transport Canada in re-engined Lake Amphibian, with 75% power applied at entry. The result was a snap roll, rather than a gentle spin. After seeing the horizon up side down in the windshield, instead of pointing down, that was enough of that! Otherwise, I have found spins a pleasing maneuver, when flown in accordance with the stated limitations for the aircraft (or flight authority while testing).
Pilot_DAR – I think you probably follow my point, which is that some aircraft spin in a more “dramatic” way and the recovery technique must be more precise. I think that is the point you are also making. Yes, in theory they will all recover if the correct technique is followed, but sometimes even for the more experienced, it can catch you out. For exampe the Fuji from which my handle arises spins in a totally predictable and benign way BUT it is possible to set it into an inverted spin which comes as a bit of a surprise when it happens and it does pitch very nose down which means there is a lot of green whirling around. I suspect with your experience and for anyone who is very current you / they would not be “phased” and indeed anyone regularly aerobating a particular aircraft will be fine almost all the time but if you are new on type or havent spun for some time it has the ability to “catch you out” like everything else with flying. I guess that was the point I was seeking to make. Also I think rather like PFLs there is a temptation not to rehearse as frequently as we should, even someone flying aerobatics at basic competition level is not compelled to spin and inded may end up not spinning all the regularly.
