Planning Flight to Greece - seems much easier now!

Petakas,

Concerning that VFR / IFR subject:

I remember a thread about a year or so ago, where we discussed that Greece has now finally devised an ICAO compliant airspace structure.

Is that airspace structure as shown in, for example, Skydemon, correct?

Do they use aispace E at all? If not, then VFR an IFR should work just the same, i.e. if you are in C/D, then you will be controlled, if you are in G then you will be uncontrolled…

www.aopa.gr/info paragraph 29.

I do not have Skydemon so I can’t comment.

G is outside Airways (base), TMAs and CTRs but once you enter them you are in E (airways above base, TMAs) or D (CTRs ATZs).
So effectively you are controlled when just leaving or getting close to airports as IFR (+ inside airways above base since Eurocontrol will not validate FPL below min. altitude) and as VFR you follow the “suggested” VFR routes & altitudes in TMAs which get diversion requests approved for “weather/turbulence” etc. as long as you A) remain in VHF communication and B) have Mode C active in radar equipped TMAs (Athens, Thessaloniki, Rhodes, Iraklion, Kerkyra).

One significant factor is that most of central/south mainland is covered by a TMA which start from 1000AGL up to FL2xx so effectively you are in controlled airspace when above or close to central/south mainland.

Dear Petakas,

I’m still dealing to schedule a flight to sitia, and handling is definitly not helpfull (even 25€ is to much !)

this is Sitia Notam OH :

D0210/15 – SITIA AIRPORT HOURS OF SERVICE AS FOLLOWS:
FROM 29/05/2015 TILL 24/10/2015
-—————————————-
MON 1000-1330 1600-1900
TUE 0700-0830 1730-1900
WED,SUN 1000-1130 1730-1900
THU,SAT 0700-0830 1200-1330 1600-1900
FRI 0430-0530 1000-1130 1600-1900

Arrival is Wed 5th August and Departure is Mon 10th August.
I said I was surprise by OH because Greece is UTC+3 and I’m flying VFR (NVFR is forbiden in Greece, and I’m not qualified)

first I didn’t find a way to calculate night for a date and a point. As I have an apps doing it for all points for today and another one doing for all daye for France. I more or less thing 5th of august night in stitia will arrive 17:15 UTC (20:15 LT).
First is there a way to find this information for Greece ?

It means the second OH of the day is not possible in VFR ?

I may be wrong somewhere but if it is the case, I understand better why Heraklion is easier than Sitia. I was interesed by Sitia because it is a small city just the airport. But anyway safty will guide my final decision..

Thank you for your help, I read carfully all your topics :-)

PPG

What is “OH” ?

Check http://sunrisesunset.com/ down the middle for “Athens” calendar. Variations from Athens sunset time are a couple of minutes or so or go from “Predefined Locations page” and choose “Greece – Heraklion”. Do not mistake UTC for Local time.
Greece all summer is UTC+3

Official SR SS times per airport are in the AIP.
http://www.hcaa.gr/aip/
Section GEN 2.7

OK understood, 2nd OH you mean second opening time.

(from above table) Sunset is 20:20L airport opens 20:30L official night is 20:50L (Athens location but Sitia will vary few minutes)

Just checked GEN 2.7
LGST AUG 5 03:28 17:15
Sitia in that period official SS is 17:15z 20:15L | Night 17:45z 20:45L so you have 15’ till official night in specific location from the opening time. Not a lot of time but doable.

Keep in mind you can plan to arrive “a bit” earlier, airport staff are there in their positions at least 30’ earlier with vehicle checking the runway for FOD etc.
Even if you arrive say 10’ earlier you can circle above. In 70% of the cases they will allow you to land before the official opening time as long as the airport is ready (meaning mainly Fire Engine having completed the drive inspection up and down the runway).

Say to handler you will arrive latest 20:30L … staff will certainly be on their positions earlier in that case ;-)

Dear Petakas,

thank you for all these confirmations. (yes Opening Time)… 15’ is quiet short ! I know how to fly these conditons because in France night is ss+30min, and as I’m not IFR, let say I’m not found of it.
such kind of stress can ruin my pleasure of flying watching time every minutes. My plan was to do Corfu, Megara to refuel and Sitia. I will see if I’m able to catch the first opening time or not.
If it is too short I think I will choose Heraklion.
I don’t like to be forced to do a kiss landing on an egg !!!!
I think you guys can’t really understand because most of you are IFR and a bit darkness at arrival is not a real problem… I’m a small VFR pilot !
I explained to Skyserve and say I’m thinking about the situation and I asked them advices, we will see.

Anyway thank you again !! i’ll keep you inform

PPG

I think you guys can’t really understand because most of you are IFR and a bit darkness at arrival is not a real problem… I’m a small VFR pilot !

Well – in many countries night VFR is permitted and a night rating is so useful and easy to get so I would expect essentially every VFR pilot to have one. Certainly they do in Sweden.

So if a bit of darkness is a problem or not depends of course if you are used to it as well as to the margins to legal darkness in case night VFR is not allowed. Flying close to the legal time limit, expecting ATC to strike down on you if you miss it is not a good situation to be in.

Re: night VFR – in Poland it is a separate endorsement/rating, and I’ve been strongly advised to get it ASAP (I just passed the PPL skill test yesterday) just so I don’t get into trouble for landing 15 minutes after the official deadline. That, and the school wants more of my money, but at least they justified it in a way I can agree with ;)

Re: night VFR – in Poland it is a separate endorsement/rating

There is noch thing as a Polish endorsement anymore, it’s all EASA FCL. With SERA, the night flight rules were unified (a bit).