WhiskeyPapa wrote:
What is the cheapest port of entry for Greece now (flying VFR)? LGIR Heraklion?
From my experience any international airport which is not taken by Fraport, excluding Athens LGAV. That means very few.
WhiskeyPapa wrote:
What is the cheapest port of entry for Greece now (flying VFR)? LGIR Heraklion?
Here you go …
https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/7684-avoiding-high-fraport-and-handling-costs-in-greece
Here is a nice selection of obvious and not so obvious charges and bureaucracy being implemented now in Fraport Greek airports:
-To approach your plane ,you need to pay Handling company to drive you there and stay watchful while you wash,fix the plane.Cost 25-80Euro.
-The idea of home base is not valid anymore.To obtain permanent Entry ID,you need to rent a small ,WC size, office at a cost 500Euro/month.
-No self fueling permited anymore.No fuel-no flying unless Avgas truck present.(Corfu,Rodos,Samos).Cost 3,2Euro/liter
-Suppose you are Mr.Tolerate-it-all and want to fly.You have to call the Handler to arrange the PPR for the destination.Cost 62Euro.
-You got the PPR,now you have to send a Form 731 to the HCAA declaring the names and the cellphones of your passengers with the note that you
dont practice “Black Airtaxi”.
-The usual FPL must be forwarded even for local flights.
-The usual General Declaration is also needed for the HCAA notifying that you dont suffer of plague,malaria,syphilis,TBC,HIV,schizo,e.tc.
-You rush for the payments.Handling 25-80Euro,cheapo Parking 1,30Euro/day, Pax tax 14Euro each,Security 2Euro each,…and happily you fly away.
-At the destination,another drain awaits you.Landing 62Euro.Cones,ribbons,smiles 5Euro,Handling, another 25-80Euro.
-After enjoying life at the destination,you want to return at your home ? All the above charges apply from the begin.
-Same charges apply for ULs.No excuses Mr.Smart.
Indeed this is the grim reality for based aircraft.
I think the costs are more than you report.
- Per handling (with AOPA discount) the handling is some 100 Euro (incl. PPR, 10~12% disbursement fees for all Fraport & CAA payments below and VAT 24% )
- Per passenger per departure the fee is 12.5 Euro or so.
- Per landing the airport fees are some 62~65 Euro and then 1~1.5 Euro parking per day.
What I’ve read in their monthly e-news is that AOPA Hellas has already had meetings with GOLDAIR & SWISSPORT for renewed Handling contracts from June with better prices in their handling costs (for services that were not in the contracts and are currently charged per main price list) and also they have arranged a meeting with Fraport central management at end of May to address all the “hot” issues.
I hope you have success, Petakas.
A lot hangs on greatly reducing this “commercial property income stripping exercise” which will otherwise kill domestic GA in Greece, kill flight training in Greece, and kill GA visitors to Greece.
The last group “could” afford the 150-300 euros they will get skimmed for (as a one-off trip, especially relative to the cost of avgas) but most will choose to not come because of the horrible reputation for extortion which it will give Greece.
That will in turn cause a collapse in GA support. Avgas will disappear, as the first result.
I am glad Sitia LGST is unaffected, but it is somewhat out of the way for the September fly-in to Astapalea.
When Italy imposed the wealth tax a few years back, AOPA Italy asked for help by writing to a certain govt email address stating essentially what Peter describes: “I planned a trip but have cancelled it due to these exorbitant fees that I can’t afford, and will no longer be spending my money in Greece for fuel, hotels, rental cars, etc, etc. and will advise all my pilot friends to avoid Greece”. I believe they got quite a response. In the Italy situation I like to think that it played even a small role in the tax being rolled back.
Maybe an idea for this case if the negotiations don’t achieve the desired effect?
If the above list by MedFlyer is strictly enforced GA has no future in Greece. Only the really adventurous will still go, and Greece’s small GA will be killed completely.
Alexis wrote:
If the above list by MedFlyer is strictly enforced GA has no future in Greece. Only the really adventurous will still go, and Greece’s small GA will be killed completely.
I think as Peter points out, even the adventurous will have problems. Because once GA in general stops going there, then they’ll stop stocking avgas. So now you’re looking at having to try and organise avgas to be shipped in, in barrels. That’s a whole new level of expense!
So now you’re looking at having to try and organise avgas to be shipped in, in barrels.
So Greece and Africa will pretty much be the same. While Italy is still Europe. For how long?
Aviathor wrote:
So Greece and Africa will pretty much be the same. While Italy is still Europe. For how long?
Sitia on Crete pumps AVGAS out of barrels for €3.2/l. In Egypt, AVGAS is served from the bowser for $3.2/l. Africa isn’t that bad. The amount of administrative paperwork in Greece has now by far surpassed Egypt. I have regular and recent experience in both countries.
