achimha wrote:
The amount of administrative paperwork in Greece has now by far surpassed Egypt.
I simply don’t understand this need for bureaucracy – how flying can be so different in two countries e.g. Germany/Denmark/Sweden … and Greece which in all senses are part of same regime (EU, EASA, Schengen)?
In Greece these are still leftovers from the military government. You can feel that in every office of their airports. And the Greek care ZERO about the EU in this regard. Look at the Airport of Entry craziness. I was in LGKR 5 times and not ONE time did they want to see a passport …
The Italian Luxury Tax was tried by the State. The Sardegna landings tax was tried very briefly by the Sardegna local Communes or Prefectures.The new Greek airport charges are implemented by the new holding company.The net price of avgas is around 1E/lt.The rest 2,2Euros represent normal tax,special consumption tax,VAT and import duties.
The sloppines and the grim faces you meet in various occasions is not a result of the low rank military junta 1967-1974 but the remnants of a pro-Soviet psyche since the 1944-49 civil wars.A feeling of “moral advantage” by these people and we all receive this “sour” service at various public administrations. 50 years of backward uncompetitiveness and slow adaptability ,did a miracle.Half million young allready immigrated elsewere.The rest remain here trying to solve what happened.One more slap and we become a Non State.
The minimum charge at Skiathos LGSK without passengers.
My first visit after FRAPORT ownership.
An expensive ride but I met a whole different kind of airport.
Very efficient and polite airport personnel, very thorough private security personnel for ramp access (not the bored state policeman for whom we had to wait sometimes to arrive from local station to activate the scanners), all in all a true client based service.
AOPA Greece have meetings this month with all Handlers and Fraport management in order to achieve some better prices for GA. All of us hope for better pricing but they are up against a corporate environment.
Leaving Megara LGMG I felt sorry for a company of friends with two French aircraft (I think they were Robin’s) when I learned the story. (F-HBAV F-HJNO if you know them)
They were destined to (Fraport) Santorini LGSR for vacations after having flown in via (Fraport) Kerkyra LGKR and then to Megara LGMG before continuing to Santorini.
They had their LGSR PPR request response as “you can come in but only for few hours”.
Then they said lets stay overnight at LGMG and we see what we do.
Ooops no overnight PPR for that too since it was not requested 24hrs before.
LGMG CAA did their best with the Army and secured them overnight for LGMG.
Then they decided to return to Kerkyra (Corfu) for their vacations.
Ooopss no PPR requested.
LGMG CAA then intervened, called Fraport Kerkyra and managed to get them a permission to stay there for few days.
The CAA guy at LGMG telling me the story told me “I feel ashamed for what these guys go through”.
As I was returning from the morning flight to Skiathos (3 hrs later) they were departing for Kerkyra.
OK to be honest, its clear they had not checked any NOTAMs but still…
@petakas
Does Skiathos now have tie down rings or some other way to secure the plane (aside from your own chocks)?
The CAA guys at Megara really are fantastic and the military pretty decent too. That place is a GA bright spot. The CAA arranged an overnight for me also without PPR last summer. BTW If the French are still there, they should check in at the Cokkinis Hotel a ways down the road by taxi. Great place with its own beach.
petakas wrote:
but they are up against a corporate environment.
I suspect you mean bureaucratic or non-competitive environment? There are large corporations (normally in competitive environments) that are agile, flexible, and customer-friendly.
@chflyer not bureaucratic at all to be honest, they just delegate everything to the handlers who in turn charge for everything. A private company which is cashing in at its investment with no mercy I would say. Non-competitive, yes by all means, a true monopoly.
@WhiskeyPapa the French still there ? LGMG ? but how come I saw them taxying for departure ? When I vacated LGMG runway they were both at holding point ready for line up for departure.
One suggestion of a 2nd item for AOPA to put on their negotiation list is to eliminate the PPR nonsense, at least for aircraft < some max wingspan. PNR should be enough. If an airfield gets so many PNR’s that it no longer has space, then they can issue a short-duration no-overnight-parking NOTAM until the space frees up again. That would likely have avoided the problem the French guys had.
Agree, sounds like LGMG deserves support for their can-do attitude.
petakas wrote:
Very efficient and polite airport personnel, very thorough private security personnel for ramp access (not the bored state policeman for whom we had to wait sometimes to arrive from local station to activate the scanners), all in all a true client based service.
I feel you are missing the forest for the trees, not to mention the 135E more that you payed 
Also sometimes looks can be deceiving, esp. now with the takeover.
atmilatos wrote:
I feel you are missing the forest for the trees, not to mention the 135E more that you payed Also sometimes looks can be deceiving, esp. now with the takeover.
I was referring to my experience of indeed the trees I encountered today.
There was nowhere to be seen the disgusting trees and attitude I have experienced in the past in various Greek airports.
The forest is a huge problem and the cost unacceptable in any way anyone sees it. Its a GA killer without doubt.
You know, it may be reverse psychology like when something is soo bad you try to find something nice to convince yourself its not a complete disaster. :-)
