I wish I could drive 10 minutes to my plane, but it was not meant to be. You, probably, can’t have everything …
I got you about Munich, in the first place, but since I’m a local I maybe didn’t want to admit. Actually that’s the quality of Munich, the village character. It’s a great place to live just becasue of that.
I’m totally confused about this new turn of the discussion. Who has ever advocated flying in controlled airspace without a clearance?
(Except VFR in class E, obviously.)
I don’t get it either, so let’s let it rest now.
Who has ever advocated flying in controlled airspace without a clearance?
If the only way to get an IFR clearance (in Gemany) is in CAS and it is constantly repeated by “some pilots” that it’s common practice to enter IMC to get to the MRVA. I guess we are talking about entering CAS in IMC without a clearance then. You don’t need a clearance to fly in “E”, but you have to be VMC until you get the IFR clearance.
If anyone wishes this diversion to continue, please start a new thread with a well chosen title. I can move posts but it’s a hassle for me because I can move only one at a time.
So … We have arrived at LELL again and I had a nice chat with the tower ATCO.
During our arrival the clouds were reported as FEW045 but as we got closer it – to me – was more like SCT045 and the type was of some cumulus.
Barcelona was asking a few times “do you see the ground” but as any attempt to descend would have taken us through the clouds canceling IFR would not have been possible. So we ended up in the hold over SLL at 6000’ and in IMC. After two rounds the ground became visible a bit and my question for lower was again answer with “do you see the ground?”. As we were Barcelona let us down in the hold to 4000. At 4500 we came out of it all and I was able to cancel IFR.
I’m on the phone and will report in a second post how to leave LELL.
Just answer “yes” to the question and you’ll be fine, especially given your equipment… The question is silly to begin with.
As I promised to tell what the Sabadell ATCO said about leaving LELL and picking up the IFR clearance from Barcelona I shall continue.
Sabadell Tower can send departing aircraft into the hold over SLL only if the weather allows the pilot to stay VMC until at least 4000’. If that is not possible, then a regular VFR departure via the VFR routes is the only option. The ATCO mentioned that to the North-West of the field there is lower terrain.
Sabadell has an ATZ which is class D. Around it there is class E from the surface to 3500. That is called the Barcelona VFR sector below the TMA which is class A. The ATZ class D also goes from the surface to 3500.
The remaining parts around are class G and touch at different altitudes the class A TMA. The lower terrain is where the class G is.
There are quite a few mountains around the area. Today it did rain and those mountains were in clouds. I was busy with other things but here and there the METAR did mention cloud altitudes of around 2000’. The field elevation is 485’.
Based on the type of other aircraft stationed at Sabadell I guess picking up an IFR clearance is not a common thing. There is mostly DA20, Cessna 150/172.
As this is a bit about flying in and out of Sabadell (LELL) I want to add a few things that I learned / observed.
Barcelona approach working the TMA does indeed ask airliners frequently “are you visual with the ground?” before allowing them to descend. There destination is the IFR only airport El Prat (LEBL) so I think they will never leave controlled airspace at any time. It seems to happen when they come in over the mountains. Plus I have a feeling that it only happens with non-Spanish crews. I’ve never heard the equivalent of the question in Spanish but I may have missed it.
The other thing is that flying within Barcelona class A TMA doesn’t really feel like “IFR”. It has more a VFR feeling to it. Yes, you do get a clearance with altitude and a waypoint to navigate to. But somehow there is that growing impression it is all about getting there somehow and not necessarily in a straight line. Especially when leaving towards France all they seem to care about is that you leave the Barcelona FIR and do everything with the French on the other side. Crossing between Germany and France or Germany and Switzerland feels different and much more controlled.
What they do seem to care about is that you cross the FIR boundary at the established waypoints and along the airways. Unlike France, Germany, and Switzerland they will not send you to a waypoint within another FIR.
Yes, things are ‘looser’ down here. I flew from Mallorca to La Cerdanya (LECD) yesterday. Btw, one of my favorite destinations. In the middle of the Pyrenees, informal, lively airfield, excellent restaurant, unforgettable views, and this crisp mountain air. Stephan, if you have not already done so, you may want to go there soon. 20 mins from Sabadell!
Anyway, decided to go back IFR, Z. Filed for an airway straight over Barcelona, FL100, always a nice sight. IFR clearance pick up point PUMAL, not far from La Cerdanya. Called Barcelona Control way ahead to pick up my clearance, but they asked me to ‘stand by’. Just about to get to PUMAL I was getting into IMC, and basically had no choice but to get into class A at FL80 and keep climbing (no room between ground and cloud base) and they asked me to change frequency. Obviously, it took 30 seconds to establish contact and the controller asked me ‘whether I was IFR’. Said yes.. No much risk there, really no traffic, but still a little disconcerting this vagueness in Spain sometimes about your status. I think I am going to be more assertive in future about getting a positive clearance to start IFR and one to cancel it. 
