Peter wrote:
Technically, ATC (as opposed to AFIS or A/G Radio) do have authority within the ATZ (2nm or 2.5nm radius, according to runway length) but I am sure the bottom line is that if you openly disobeyed them nothing could be done because it’s Class G.
Oh, yes something could be done! Traffic operating in “the vicinity” of a controlled airport is subject to ATC. This is in SERA (and in the ICAO rules) and it is clear from the phrasing that it is independent of the airspace class. “The vicinity” is not defined, except that it includes the “at least” the traffic circuit. It would be reasonable to expect that the ATZ is “the vicinity”.
I’ve only flown IFR in the US. Does nowhere in Europe have a ‘void time’ like what is done at uncontrolled airports in the US, or a remote antenna to the relevant ATSU at busier non-towered airports? (I’ve used a void time exactly once – on a severe clear VMC evening not long after Sept.11 when VFR flying around major cities was banned. Our home airfield had a remote antenna so we could get clearance delivery on the ground).
alioth wrote:
Does nowhere in Europe have a ‘void time’ like what is done at uncontrolled airports in the US, or a remote antenna to the relevant ATSU at busier non-towered airports?
Not that I know of. Although busier non-towered airports frequently have AFIS who will get the clearance for you over a landline.
In France my usual practice at an unmanned airfield, if I want to fly IFR in controlled airspace soon after take off is this:
- I request startup with my mobile (A start up clearance is just a way of telling you that you will get your clearance to enter CAS without delay, you don’t need it to start your engine)
- Once ready to taxy I call again (bluetooth+ bose) to request a departure clearance, which is normally ready for me.
- Once airborne, I call the frequency I was told to call in my departure clearance. I tell them my takeoff time so that they can activate my FPL
I think the same procedure can be followed in the UK.
In Belgium there is no such thing as an unattended airfield, there must be a commandant d’aerodrome at all times, but I think that if the commandant were occupied with other matters, you could use the same procedure.
Anyway the flight is made under IFR from the very beginning, your FPL is I. I think that, provided that the RVR is above the minimum, you may take off, even if the ceiling is low and you have to fly in clouds soon after takeoff. Your cruise level may not be below 3000 AMSL under IFR.
Reviving an old thread here. I am new to IR in Europe (got my FAA IR in 2002), or at least to the possibility of going anywhere with it other than to other big airports with procedures in NL for practice. I had presumed I would use Piotr_Szut’s method above for obtaining my clearance, but also wondering whether it’s ever given by the person in the tower rather than a “real” ATS unit?
I’m also wondering what people do in practice when arriving at a field with no procedure when the ceiling is low but still high enough for a normal VFR circuit, say 1000’ AGL. As in, I’m above an OVC layer IFR and want to descend through it to land at a VFR-only field.
dutch_flyer wrote:
I’m also wondering what people do in practice when arriving at a field with no procedure when the ceiling is low but still high enough for a normal VFR circuit, say 1000’ AGL. As in, I’m above an OVC layer IFR and want to descend through it to land at a VFR-only field.
Just don’t join from above: there has been few IFR/VFR MAC near IMC when IFR was descending through clouds from above of the VFR circuit and load of IFR/VFR MAC in very good VMC when VFR went flying very shallow glide paths (the SR22 & MetroLiner)
If slow VFR sticks to 1000ft agl circuits (& turning base when it’s 45deg behind the wing and steep approach) while fast IFR flies shallow 3deg glide slopes on long final everybody should be happy 
Ibra wrote:
If slow VFR sticks to 1000ft agl circuits (& turning base when it’s 45deg behind the wing and steep approach) while fast IFR flies shallow 3deg glide slopes on long final everybody should be happy
So for example, let’s say I need to take the plane for maintenance from EHRD (CTR) to EHTE (ATZ), ceiling 1000’. I file an “I” plan, flying at FL40 (class E to 1500’) and communicating with Dutch Mil at the point when I want to descend. Do I file the low altitude and hope to break out? Do I fly a long final as you suggest, or do I descend to 1000’ and enter a VFR circuit? What do I request/expect from ATC?
dutch_flyer wrote:
but also wondering whether it’s ever given by the person in the tower rather than a “real” ATS unit?
At many airfields that are close to a larger airport and/or that have a significant share of IFR traffic, the people in the “tower” know where to call and will help you obtaining the clearance if they are where. Technically they do not give you the clearance, obviously, but act only as communication relay between ATC and you.
On your other question somebody from the Netherlands has to answer – in Germany there would be no legal way to do want you want to do.
Under NCO & SERA you can fly IFR in Class G and descend to MSA while ENR IFR (or even bellow MSA for landing) but I think the answer on what to expect on ATC side is highly country specific? some places won’t allow you to be in/out of ATC system, someone in Netherlands should be able to answer?
In all countries, you can always descend to MSA while IFR and fly VFR from there if you are VMC, however, in practice, ATC will ask you to cancel “their IFR services” bellow CAS/MVA/MEA (or report ground in sight), going from their on “your own IFR” is very risky if you don’t become VMC at MSA (or bellow it for the brave ones 
)
I suggest to cloud-break on nearby IAP (file it in your I-FPL) to get “actual visbility & ceiling” (listing to nearby ATIS or asking for weather on RT is usually not enough, I heard once 1200ft cei & 3km vis but it was actually way less that on ILS, so we made a full stop landing and I forget about joining the VFR at my homebase ) and tell ATC what you want to do with regards to heading for your VFR airfield after and how you can go back under their watch (you have load of choices on how to go in/out: visual, cancel, missed, standard departure, circuit)
LFFK is an uncontrolled untowered airfield with no AFIS or Ground Radio station.
It R49 above starts at 3000 ft.
Recently we got a RNP approach to runway 26
I file a flight plan it doesn’t seem to make much difference these days whether I file Z or I.
If it is “I” I file an EOBT and if I file “Z” I would file an ETA at an IFR intersection.
I take off and climb. If “R49” is active I cannot climb above 3000ft so I head in the direction of my first waypoint at below that altitude. IFR other than a take off or landing procedure, OCAS starts at 3000ft and requires 2 way radio contact to be IFR (note not a clearance just contact).At somewhere between 2000ft and 3000ft it is more than likely that I will be able to contact ATS at either La Rochelle, Nantes, or Poitiers depending on the direction I intend to fly. I will open my flight plan with them and they will give me a squawk and tell me when they have radar contact. If I remain OCAS I will receive information on traffic, weather etc. I will remain in 2 way communication with this ATS receiving information, flying my filed flight plan until I am handed over to the next ATS who will confirm radar contact and so on. If my flight plan takes me into CAS I will be given a clearance to enter transit or whatever. It is in these zones where I am more likely to be rerouted from my flight plan due to traffic. At the end of which I might be told to resume own navigation or asked if I want a direct to somewhere further along my route or even cleared to destination. If this happens to take me out of CAS I will usually be informed that I am going OCAS. If this new route would take me into an active restricted area I will be informed and advised to avoid or will be given a clearance to transit the restricted area.(This depends on different things such as the type of activity in the area.) And so this goes on until I reach my destination.
On the return it is pretty much the same. It used to be that if I needed a cloud break I would do this at LFRI (La Roche sur Yon ) or LFBH (La Rochelle before canceling IFR and continuing to LFFK under VFR.
Nowadays with the RNP approach I will descend to below 3000ft if R49 is active and join the IAF for LFFK at 2400ft, perform the procedure down to minimums (from memory that is 600ft ) if necessary before carrying out a circling to land or run along the runway and circle to land as needed. The last ATS I will be talking to will give me QNH, traffic info and any other info that they have and I might need.
There are naturally other scenarios which will call for different solutions, but this is an example of something I do regularly.
