Interesting point, but does Sera say that airways are controlled airspace? In which case are SIDs Stars and IAPs also CAS?
My understanding SID, STAR, ATS/Airways in Golf are always controlled airspace (at least they DO appear in the IFR flight plan), and you will need explicit IFR clearances from ATC to fly them even in Golf (CDG/Orly controllers give you a SID to fly out of LFPN & LFPT when departing with no ATC)
IAP & CTL & MAP, my guess they are not controlled airspace in Golf (at least DO NOT appear in the IFR flight plan), only IAF as last point of STAR, which means you DO need IFR clearance to IAF (in France, ATC clears you up to IAF and ask you to switch to AFIS for uncontrolled IFR)
The question can you just fly uncontrolled IFR and join final segment of an IAP at AIP airports?
It’s way easier to do SERA IFR in Golf in/out of gliding grass strips 
Ibra wrote:
does your gliding grass strip have a licence or an AIP entry that says “VFR only” or “VMC only”?
Yes, it does – as many airfields have a “VFR only” remark in the AIP. It is just that Airborne claimed that such remarks are void if there is no specific law in the country saying that SERA is invalid while I am the opinion that it is fully in line with SERA that a specific airfield is not available for IFR operations.
Ibra wrote:
My understanding SID, STAR, ATS/Airways in Golf are always controlled airspace (at least they DO appear in the IFR flight plan), and you will need explicit IFR clearances from ATC to fly them even in Golf
In Golf you do not need an ATC clearance. Not at all. I wonder if there are things like airways, SIDs and STARs in Golf at all, but if they are, you do not need a clearance. What would such a clearance be good for in the first place? It is Golf, so any traffic can fly there freely and you are alone responsible for separation no matter if you are IFR or VFR…
In addition, SIDs. STARs, Airways in Golf can not be controlled airspaces because they are not airspaces at all! They are just lines.
Ibra wrote:
The question can you just fly uncontrolled IFR and join final segment of an IAP at AIP airports?
Are you aware of any IAP where the final segment starts or goes through uncontrolled airspace? I’m not …
Malibuflyer wrote:
Are you aware of any IAP where the final segment starts or goes through uncontrolled airspace? I’m not …
EGKB, EGKA, EGBK?
I think there is something in EASA regs which says that airways are controlled in IFR. Although they might appear as lines on the map they are in fact corridors 5nm either side of that line.
Regarding ending controlled airspace at the IAF on an uncontrolled field you often get a cleared for the approach from the approach controller before being handed over to the AFIS or for blind translissions on final.
I agree with @Ibra about Sids and Stars being CAS, that makes sense.
gallois wrote:
I agree with @Ibra about Sids and Stars being CAS, that makes sense.
It doesn’t make sense because they are not on (enroute) maps. It would be a nightmare for flight preparation if you need to check with the SIDs and STARs of every airport you pass with let’s say less than 25NM distance (Some STARs are even reaching further) if they touch your planned flightpath and therefore you need a clearance to cross.
Peter wrote:
Croatia operates this scheme but I don’t think they enforce it via Eurocontrol (unless it is done finely, using timing based on tower staff time occupancy).
No, it’s still not enforced via Eurocontrol but ATC will not miss the opportunity to warn you about wrong flight rules if you file instrument departure from LDLO or LDSB on days when tower doesn’t work. I tried to explain them few times that it’s their responsibility to clarify this with Eurocontrol and supply correct data but without success and then I gave up.
gallois wrote:
Interesting point, but does Sera say that airways are controlled airspace? In which case are SIDs Stars and IAPs also CAS?
Yes, it does. But, maybe its definition of “airway” is different from what you had in mind?
SERA regulation, definitions: ‘airway’ means a control area or portion thereof established in the form of a corridor;
I think there is something in EASA regs which says that airways are controlled in IFR. Although they might appear as lines on the map they are in fact corridors 5nm either side of that line.
The extent of an airway is not defined in SERA. It is defined in the AIP for the country concerned. It must be thus because some ATS routes are RNAV 5 while other are RNAV 1.
Note that the “airway” concept is not used in many countries because in most countries (in Europe) all airspace is controlled above a rather low level, making corridors unnecessary. The UK is the major exception, but I believe France also has airways. Germany does not.
Malibuflyer wrote:
In Golf you do not need an ATC clearance. Not at all. I wonder if there are things like airways, SIDs and STARs in Golf at all, but if they are, you do not need a clearance. What would such a clearance be good for in the first place? It is Golf, so any traffic can fly there freely and you are alone responsible for separation no matter if you are IFR or VFR…
[….]
Are you aware of any IAP where the final segment starts or goes through uncontrolled airspace? I’m not …
In every uncontrolled instrument airport in Germany, the beginning of every SID and the final segment of every IAP go through uncontrolled airspace, do they not?
Airborne_Again wrote:
Note that the “airway” concept is not used in many countries because in most countries (in Europe) all airspace is controlled above a rather low level, making corridors unnecessary. The UK is the major exception, but I believe France also has airways. Germany does not.
True. Germany and the Netherlands have an OK balance where class E start at a low altitude (1500ft in NL), that makes all IFR traffic controlled and avoids the airways corridor kind of issue. But still leaves VFR to do whatever they want.
The problem case in the Netherlands is that class A starts at 1500ft all around Amsterdam and class C at 6,500ft in many other places. Most other TMAs are class E which is good, but now with Lelystad they’ve added a TMA with class D which is really limiting for VFR training around the area.
That combination of low class A, relatively low class C doesn’t leave much room for GA. There have been discussions for years between AOPA and the ATC organisation to get much more class E airspace (proposal is up to FL100 everywhere except Schiphol) more similar to what Germany has, because it frees up VFR to do whatever they want and still keeps all the IFR possibilities. So far things aren’t moving forward yet.
