mciholas wrote:
mciholas 14-Mar-16 03:59 #70
C210_Flyer wrote:
Nice work guys scared another one away!,
I made an informed decision. I was not scared away. I just decided that the benefits did not justify the cost and effort.
How are we now to pay for all the migrants if we dont have rich Americans to come here with their own plane?
If I was rich, I wouldn’t have to worry about what it costs.Mike C.
Michael its all tongue in cheek. But seriously as Peter indicated if you ask, people will pipe up with no experience at all. Just have to cull through what is real and possible from the improbable and impossible.
The one thing for sure is that it will cost you. But perhaps not as much as you think. Now with an MU2 you will be saving a lot in fuel costs. There is a way to get some of the VAT back before you leave the country. Scotland sent me a nice check or rather a deposit.
True flying an MU2 over has not the same level of challenge as a C182 but its still an experience. The journey is part of the thrill.
mciholas wrote:
How are we now to pay for all the migrants if we dont have rich Americans to come here with their own plane?
If I was rich, I wouldn’t have to worry about what it costs.Mike C.
Mike the one thing you will have to accept here in Europe is that when people find out you have an airplane you are considered rich. Dont bother to fight it or deny it. They have their minds made up. Im very selective who I tell and I only have a C210.
Never mind that it is part of your business and that unlike here in Europe it actually makes business sense because it increases you profitability. Never mind that you work 60-80 hrs a week 7 days a week and have a cardiologist on retainer. You have an airplane. Thats it.
Peter wrote:
Europe would really have been straightforward for someone flying a MU2 IFR.It may seem so, but I have yet to fully plan a single flight despite putting in about 30 hours on trying to do so.
It isn’t the negative stuff, it is the lack of a concrete example flight planned to the detail necessary to execute it. Once in the air, I don’t expect issues.
I have buckets of comments saying it can be done but not one showing me the level of detail I would want planned out prior to departure. One fully specified example would go a long way to showing me how this works.
The fundamental disconnect is I expected uber reliable IFR travel in Europe with my MU2, the kind where I have to get back Sunday night without anxiety, and can be planned in 20-30 minutes. That just isn’t the way it works in Europe, but it is what I expect in the US.
But once you have taken care of the gotchas (which in IFR are hardly different to the USA in the context of a MU2) it all works out fine.
I wasn’t so worried about the gotchas, I was just unable to get all the data I needed to know what is going to happen.
In the final analysis, spending $75K plus the hassle, risk, and effort just wasn’t worth the benefit. For that kind of money, I can find other ways to enjoy flying in Europe, and leave travel to other means.
Mike C.
Which bits did you spend 30 hours on, Mike?
I have just been to Annecy in France and back and the work involved
Can you pick two airports and we will have a go at doing a worked example?
mciholas wrote:
it is the lack of a concrete example flight planned to the detail necessary to execute it. Once in the air, I don’t expect issues.
I told you to have RR as your handler. They are not that expensive and they take all the guess work out for you. I have the time but sometimes not the patients to deal with European fiefdom mentality. So I go butt my head against the wall of the European way of doing things. Then either I call RR for help or give up. And Im not even paying for that service. But in return I give them the credit for what they have accomplished in helping me and the plugs.
I asked you to PM me and I would have given you my number to discuss it. As I remember I even told you I had a US phone # although I could be wrong that I told you that.
Im not sure about the numbers but for my 210 <2 T with travel from US and touring when I got here it cost about 25K. That included rafts and a real survival suit insurance and hotels etc.
Mike: I am currently writing a book to specifically help pilots like you out. It is not finished yet, but all is not so difficult as it seems. It is the unknown that might scare off, but in the end it all is quite easy to do. Don’t give up that easily on your dream. No commercial flight beats the adventure, experience and fun of flying to and through Europe or for that matter any other part of the world. If you have the time and money to do so, I would not give up on your plan and dream. If you spend 30 hours so far figuring out routes, you are almost there.
Somehow I missed this online discussion and your request for support on this great pilot forum so far. I would be glad to help you prepare the flights one-by-one at no costs. In a Skype session I can share my iPad with you and show you how easy it is to prepare for the flights. I can also offer you our 24/7 flight service center phone number for support during your trip to sort out any last moment issues for you.
I don’t have experience flying your specific MU2 aircraft, but have some experience flying aircraft in Europe, Africa and the Middle East. It is so much fun to fly out into unknown territory. Air Traffic Control here in Europe is very helpful. You will get all the support you need while in the air. With the preparation, what is most important is to find a route that validates with the Eurocontrol system. Once you are in the air, you can ask the controller for shortcuts or changes to your plan and I always find them willing to help out where they can. If I fly into an airport that I have never been to, I go online to find their website or I download the plates and I will give them a short call to tell them about my plan. In your type of aircraft I would consider using a handling agency. To find a good handler or for ease of finding airport information, you could use the ACUKWIK app (see: http://www.acukwik.com/ ) which I believe is also implemented (the data) into Rocketroute (RR). RR also offers you flight support and phone support as Jason suggested above. To there are several options and lots of people on this forum that are willing to help you out.
Here is a sample worked out including a screencast of me using my iPad to plan a flight from Lido (airstrip next to Venice) to a private airstrip in the south of Sicily with a Cirrus SR22T. It is what I could easily find on my blog. I did the planning for this IFR flight (as for all my flights) on the fly on my iPhone or iPad and the whole process of finding a route and preparing the flight takes about 10-15 minutes. In this video it is about 6 minutes for a shorter flight. It more or less works just as easy for your aircraft. Same basic procedure. Link to my blogpost: http://www.aeroplus.nl/finding-optimal-ifr-routes-inbound-a-zzzz-location
I personally use my own flightplan filing app called AeroPlus Flightplan as I like to do everything natively on my iPhone/iPad while on-the-go. Then from the flightplan app I move the route to an app that is quite popular here in Europe called SkyDemon. I then have the plates, the route and everything at my disposal right on my iPad. A lot of pilots on this forum use Autorouter AG to find the routes and file. Autorouter AG is a great (the best) routing engine for Europe and a good web-based solution for filing flights in Europe. The important part with Autorouter is to configure your aircraft well to start with. The AeroPlus Flightplan app uses for a big part the Autorouter AG search engine, so the results should be about the same. If you prefer, you can use Autorouter at home at your computer and then move the flightplans to our app on the iPhone/iPad and file and adjust while on-to-go.
There are a lot of great places to fly to in Europe and best is to experience great flying with visiting all the great historical sites and cities. Flying IFR is straight forward. During the flying you don’t have to worry about airspaces. Air Traffic Control will do that for you. And flying an ILS over here is more or less the same as doing it over in the US. If you are used to Jeppesen plates, then just extend your subscription with a trip-kit for a low price and you will have the same look-and-feel for the airports in Europe.
Ditto or Ibid…what Aero plus said.
AeroPlus wrote:
RR also offers you flight support and phone support as Jason suggested above.
A Correction Required: its Eugene and not Jason
Aeroplus will you be at Friedrichshafen? Would love to see how you work with your Ipad.
Sorry C210_Flyer. I will be flying in Africa at that time.
One idea for Mike is the following: why don’t we organize a webcast. Then we can join each other online and I can prepare for some of the flights Mike is suggesting on the fly. Mike and others can join in and we record the webcast and make it available online. That way Mike gets hands on experience planning. I would be using my own app if you all don’t mind as that is what I am most used to, but in the end it doesn’t matter if it is my app, RocketRoute or Autorouter AG. The concept is all the same and it could demonstrate to Mike how easy it is to plan for flights in Europe.
Mike: would you be open to such a webcast? Would that help you?
I could not imagine being more efficient traveling through Europe than by using your own aircraft. Once I start flying, it is amazing what I can see, do and travel to in such as short time. I could not imagine doing the same with the airliners. And there are so many great and special places in Europe. Due to its cultural diversity it is a great continent to fly through.
Planning a trip to Salzburg in December of last year:
Pretty much the same process for Bratislava and Graz although IIRC none of them required PPR (nor slot). Bratislava required handling.
Id be up for it. Learn something new every day.
As in, just checked on that Sicilian airport in Ragusa. It sounded great till I read that the Rwy is only 680m. with no overruns as well as a slope and at 1600’ not to mention prevailing wind as a tailwind. If I go I would be traveling with 4 adults baggage and raft pretty much on the heavy side. If I do get in, getting out would be impossible in the summer late spring and early fall. So scratch that one off the list.
Just curious where is the nearest airport with hard surface and with fuel? From the hotel?
