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Skimming cloud tops - is it illegal?

I dont approve of this truly dreadful behaviour, after all it might be you popping out of the cloudbase

OTOH my transponder will be ON – as it always is.

Also I can hardly recall the last time I have seen somebody in the UK flying above the clouds. Not suggesting the clouds in that video were UK clouds, of course

And outside the UK, and Germany, it’s rare enough to see GA below the clouds, too….

But, seriously, if you look at mid-air history in Europe, it’s a total non-event. It is 99.9% an emotional risk. Most of them happen at the “obvious” places and scenarios.

I have noticed one at Egelsbach

A bizjet colleague calls this “IVFR” and there is a special provision in German air law allowing it

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter – yes I agree, you shouldnt have missed the wink out of my quote! I was only teasing. Whats the old saying you could fly around blind fold for a life time and never bump into anyone.

Yes I know

Sometimes us cynical old-timers just assume that what is obviously funny will be seen as funny by everybody, but as you know that’s not always the case on the internet, especially across nationalities… I once wrote on the Socata’s owners’ group, in a discussion re flying overweight, that I fly at MTOW+30% because it usefully increases Va (technically this is true) and a % of the residents bought it. My demise there followed not too long after…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I hope my demise will not follow as quickly then.

Peter wrote:

Also I can hardly recall the last time I have seen somebody in the UK flying above the clouds.

It’s perhaps more common in northern Britain. It’s often the most comfortable and convenient way to get from A to B here, where we have large areas of Class G up to FL195.

I agree with @Peter about mid-air risk. It’s not unusual to be Scottish Info’s only GA “customer” on a weekday morning or evening. I remember an evening flight to NI during the volcanic ash palaver, I think I was the first person they’d spoken to all day – boy were they bored. Their colleagues in Belfast had all downed headsets and gone to the pub.

Glenswinton, SW Scotland, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I once wrote on the Socata’s owners’ group, in a discussion re flying overweight, that I fly at MTOW+30% because it usefully increases Va (technically this is true) and a % of the residents bought it.

(Sorry for the one-liner, Peter, but I just couldn’t resist.)
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

Skimming cloud tops – is it illegal?

It is if it takes you outside the VMC minima.

VMC is defined as vertical separation from cloud being 1,000 ft. (SERA.5001)

So, this aircraft is technically not in VMC, meaning you can only do this type of flying IFR legally.

Last Edited by Archie at 18 May 11:44

Archie wrote:

It is if it takes you outside the VMC minima.

if flying VFR

ELLX (Luxembourg), Luxembourg

So, basically, skimming the tops is always illegal unless you can do it under IFR – correct?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Archie wrote:

VMC is defined as vertical separation from cloud being 1,000 ft. (SERA.5001)

No it isn’t. SERA 5001 goes on to say:

At and below 900 m (3 000 ft) AMSL, or 300 m (1 000 ft) above terrain, whichever is the higher in Class F & G

5 km** Clear of cloud and with the surface in sight. The ** then gives additional optional dispensation of 1500m visibility if at 140kts IAS or less.

Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom
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