Interesting... I always got a phone call with the "permission number" (yeah... I know it's not a "permission" in law) after filing a GAR to the police.
That is very 'police force specific'. North Wales like to do that too. But other police forces seem to just ignore GAR totally, and some seem to operate it correctly.
But I suppose most of your flight in/out of the UK operate from Shoreham, so you'd rarely have to deal with other police forces. It's really a total mess, with little consistency. That's one reason that I like the new online GAR. Once I have the receipt, the problem is that of the police force.
I'd a friend of mine recently approached by Special Branch in a rather gruff tone, clearly ready for trouble, demanded to know why they had arrived in the UK without completing a GAR. He produced his online receipt immediately, and the officer simply said "oh something mustn't be working in the system today. I don't have a record of that." and walked off to harrass someone else ;)
Graham,
If you use the online form on the AOPA site, then all UK agencies will be properly notified, and your receipt number if proof of that.
You also have to notify the Irish Authorities. How you do that, and how much notice you need to give, depends on which airport you are going to. The airport should be able to advise you. Be aware that many look for 24 hours notice, but are happy to accept less.
Where are you going to?
Colm
In fact, it appears to me that using the App for flights to Ireland is quite pointless, because in most cases you still need to send a copy of the GAR to the irish authorities, but the app doesn't allow you to "print" or email a copy. So, you can just as well do it all by conventional means...
That's correct, but most of the police forces don't (last time I checked) publish an email address, so you are left with the fax option, which is technically simple (an email2fax account) but a lot of the fax numbers don't work.
So you end up preparing a GAR form for the Irish airport only, and then using the online thingy for the UK end.
Completely stupid...
Also the police are known for phoning through the "permission to fly" number at some early hour e.g. 3am, which is great if you are trying to get some sleep before the flight!
The bottom line is that this is a pure job creation scheme, because the IRA can enter the UK via France (etc). Or on a boat during the night (etc).
If you use the online form on the AOPA site, then all UK agencies will be properly notified, and your receipt number if proof of that.
That was my understanding too but Fairoaks airport claims that isn't the case. They say that Surrey Police don't receive notification via the online form and that everyone departing Farioaks that needs to fill in a GAR, must submit it to Fairoaks tower. They also claimed that you couldn't send a GAR to Surrey Police by any other means (e.g. fax) and that it must be done via the tower on the "direct orders of Surrey Police" (quote from a member of staff in the tower). That's strange considering Redhill airport doesn't insist on the same.
I know of at least one person that has been denied permission to taxi at Fairoaks because they hadn't submitted a GAR to the tower despite having done it online via the AOPA site.
It seems the GAR situation is even more messed up than I had thought.
They say that Surrey Police don't receive notification via the online form and that everyone departing Farioaks that needs to fill in a GAR, must submit it to Fairoaks tower
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH...
An airport has no right to even see a GAR. They would be in breach of the Data protection Act if they handled that very confidential info.
I know some have historically done that and filed the form for you, but that is all changing now.
I know of at least one person that has been denied permission to taxi at Fairoaks because they hadn't submitted a GAR to the tower despite having done it online via the AOPA site.
They have absolutely no right to do that.
Report it to the CAA. If it is ATC, they are going to be in big trouble. If it is AFIS, they have no right to deny a movement except on the orders of the landowner.
But yes I got that at Wellesbourne too, some years ago. Fortunately I will still standing in the tower when they said that.
See here. [my bold]
Note to Airfield/Airport Operators:
It appears that the practice at some Airfields/Airports is to require copies of the GAR form when it has been submitted, or keep a copy where the GAR is submitted by the Airfield/Airport Operations or Agents. We currently understand from UKBF that:-
Airfields/Clubs/ATC/Handling Agents have NO delegated right to the personal info on the GAR. Though the authorities are entitled to share data with airfields for operational reasons this is likely to be only aircraft details and name of PiC
The Agreement (as in Certificate of Agreement airfield) does not imply delegated powers to approve or deny landing rights or detain or release persons on the basis of not seeing a GAR submission (though PPR and FPL requirements will still apply)
The Agreement is a 'customs concession' whereas the GAR is a customs, immigration and police document.
Pilots fulfil their obligations by submitting an online GAR and airfields should not make paper GARs mandatory
Such places handling paper GAR’s should be careful of their data liability and are strongly advised to avoid storing GAR's, and take care over their confidentiality.
If such places need PPR or movement records then UKBF suggest they use a separate PPR process and/or the Flight Plan. It is not seen that such organisations need to obtain or handle personal ID data in order to process a PPR.
Though I have never been there, from what I keep reading, Fairoaks seems to be one if the weirdest airports in UK...
In fact, it appears to me that using the App for flights to Ireland is quite pointless, because in most cases you still need to send a copy of the GAR to the irish authorities, but the app doesn't allow you to "print" or email a copy. So, you can just as well do it all by conventional means...
The biggest advantages to the online GAR for the UK is not around labour reduction. It's more that it avoids:
The Online GAR solves all of these problems..
Colm
All correct.
Just a little update:
At the weekend I flew EGKB-EIWT-EGKA.
I filed the GAR both with the online form and by fax (however the 2 fax numbers, one for Kent and one for Sussex, were both duff).
I also sent it by email to the NCU, because there is an Immigration issue coming to the UK from Ireland.
Despite sending the GAR by the online system I still got the "permission to fly" code number telephoned through from some police force, indicating that one of the two failed faxes probably did get through and they didn't get the online-filed form. I did say to her that I had also filed the GAR using the online form but she didn't know anything about that!
In retrospect, I don't think EGKB-EIWT needs the UK GAR because EGKB is a Designated Airport for Terrorism purposes (meaning, it has permanent police presence).
But EIWT, along with every other Irish airport, needs its own GAR too. EIWT actually runs a 24hr PPR requirement.............. (they don't enforce the 24hrs strictly, I am told).
Correct me if I am wrong, but the GAR form is just for the entry back into the UK. You list the outbound flights just for the purposes of recording them. You have to arrange your own customs or immigration clearance at foreign destinations. The fact the GAR form in its various transmission forms did not work would not cause a problem "anywhere in the world" would it - just UK terrotories?
The transmission problem is a good example of where some centralisation needs to exist between all of the different units. So no local fax numbers for the local constabulary, no email addresses. There should be a) the online system, but much improved for those who prefer that method b) one or two (for backup) fax numbers for those who prefer that method. I like the email address system so perhaps bin the fax system instead and keep a) online b) email. I cant believe there are any pilots now who dont have any online facilities.
