Presumably you are supposed to be VFR at that point i.e. your IFR clearance has been terminated implicitly.
No, you're not -- you're IFR in uncontrolled airspace, i.e. without ATC but with AFIS. It is only allowed as part of an instrument procedure and you may descend in IMC until the DA/MDA according to the procedure.
I am wondering to what extent the often stated requirement for an approach qualified ATCO to be around to schedule traffic for an approach procedure is an ICAO requirement.
The approach is "scheduled" by ATC and they will make sure there is only one IFR traffic in airspace F (this is a restriction of F in Germany). As soon as you enter F, ATC service is terminated. The AFIS does not have ATCO qualification, the only they they typically have is a terminal connected to ATC so they know what's coming.
The very high cost of ATC (or the very high cost of the alternative i.e. paying a nearby ATC unit to provide an approach service) does block the introduction of GPS approaches to the vast majority of GA airfields in the UK. None of the airfields which are currently non-ATC will be able to afford it.
That must be a UK thing. In Germany, ATC is provided centrally by DFS which are organized in 3 centers for the lower airspace. The German constitution requires the government to provide ATC (funny but true, there was a constitutional court ruling against privatizing DFS).
Just to complete European picture - CZ - instrument appchs are published only for airports with CTR and TWR and can't be used then the tower is dark (or when replaced by AFIS only). No procedure published for AFIS only field and the officials are strictly against something like that.
I'll translate a bit from the latest newsletter from Danish AOPA:
Headline: Revised AFIS-rules may pave the road for GPS-approaches for small aerodromes. And later: Danish Transport Authorities [we no longer have a CAA] have stated that they will try to look into the rules. Some kind of forum with AOPA has been established for this. Also the payment for having an IAP is up for negotiation. Maintaining a GPS approach should not cost much, AOPA argues. An aerodrome has been appointed as a "pilot" project - Herning (EKHG).
What AOPA and the rest of us is hoping for, is a change in rules so that an AFIS will no longer be required for IMC approach. Could be just AOPA bragging. But Danish AOPA have moved the authorities before.
France allows this.
You can shoot instrument approaches at Lfat & Lfac (amongs others) even when the tower is closed. Lille will stay with you for as long as possible.
You can shoot instrument approaches at Lfat & Lfac (amongs others) even when the tower is closed. Lille will stay with you for as long as possible.
OK, but let me again ask the specific question: who (if anybody) schedules the traffic for the approach?
It could be that Lille performs this function formally. In other words you can't have two people heading for the LFAT ILS, with one (or both) not talking to Lille Radar.
That (a remotely located approach controller) is the system they have in the USA. It obviously meets all the "emotive regulatory" objections; even the UK is happy with it.
I have done the LFAC RNAV approach twice on a Sunday when the tower was closed. Lille clear you to the IAF to start the approach and provide traffic advisories but also tell you to call on the Calais frequency once you are established on the final approach track. I don't think they actually clear you for the approach.
I've flown no-ATC IAP to Besancon LFQM. Basel ACC tells you that you are leaving controlled airspace and are cleared to descend at your discretion to the BSV NDB, they do not clear you for the approach. They will just give you the phone number to close your flight plan. A similar situation occurs at Macon. French plates often give details for no-ATC arrivals, including QNH setting to use.
In France you can fly an instrument approach with the airport basically being closed and no tower operations there. I do that all the time at Reims-Prunay and Lyon-Bron. At Reims-Prunay there is a little 2-star hotel right at the airport and you are even allowed to leave in the middle of the night IFR. You just call Orly to get your clearance and turn on the lights yourself, then depart. Orly gives you the squawk and initial climb instructions on the ground. It is not a VFR departure, but an IFR departure with nobody at the airport except you in your aircraft.
Picking up this old thread…
Having spoken to someone in the system here, the issue in the UK seems to be not with flying the IAP without ATC (in relevant cases, it is in Class G anyway and the obvious risk there is already accepted) but with integrating the inbound with circuit traffic as it enters the ATZ boundary.
So, the issue is not the normally discussed one which is to do with not having an approach controller.
The standard solution is to ask circuit traffic to orbit on base leg (or some such) to allow the IFR inbound to land, but a non-ATC person (A/G Radio, or AFIS) has no power to make such an order.
How do the countries that allow non-ATC IAPs solve this?
Peter wrote:
How do the countries that allow non-ATC IAPs solve this?Let’s forget about the AFIS person for the moment and look at the standard in most of the world, e.g. the US, for IAP into uncontrolled airports (=where there is no AFIS guy on the ground): Either you are IMC all the way down, then there is no circuit traffic, or you are VMC at pattern altitude and the usual see-and-avoid- and right-of-way-rules apply. Of course you should self-announce your position and your intentions on the radio, so that any other traffic is aware of you and can act accordingly.
