arj1 wrote:
Airborne_Again could you please elaborate? Missed that. Thanks!
I’m afraid not. My information comes from the Swedish CAA. Apparently what happens now is that EASA will introduce standard phraseology for AFIS units which does not include the possibility of suggesting courses of action to pilots. This will replaces the national Swedish phraseology which does include that possibility.
This is what I meant by key detail missing.
Sweden has done a variation of what France and Spain do: they use FISOs to “advise” traffic about who else is flying an approach, which avoids the ATC unions going crazy because a person who is not the proper “ATC” pay grade is “controlling” traffic.
With the present Swedish regulations the AFIS unit can do sequencing in the sense that they can suggest to arriving traffic (both VFR and IFR) that they join a hold while other traffic is completing an approach or departure
This stuff has been debated for the two decades I’ve been flying and it has always hit a total roadblock at the point where somebody suggests that it should be done totally by self-announcement.
Peter wrote:
This stuff has been debated for the two decades I’ve been flying and it has always hit a total roadblock at the point where somebody suggests that it should be done totally by self-announcement.
Once again, I have never said that AFIS airports in Sweden operate entirely with self-announcement. I said from the very beginning that the AFISO was involved. Sometimes I get the impression that people are not actually reading posts before they reply. In any case, a suggestion to join a hold is exactly that. There is no suggestion about tracks, levels etc. or anything else that is the task of an approach controller.
which avoids the ATC unions going crazy
You keep coming back to trade unions. Whatever goes on in the UK that may be behind that doesn’t necessarily transfer to other countries.
We were in Hemavan last June and it was exactly as A_A describes it. I did read his blog so it didn’t come as a surprise 😉 We arrived together with an F50 and we had to negotiate with them. We had heard them on the info frequency before, but info didn’t sequence us at all. Once we were on the Hemavan frequency we talked to the Fokker. We were both in IMC and we were closer to the IAF. At first they didn’t sound too happy when we suggested that we would be number one but when we told them our estimate to the fix and that we would fly 140 indicated to four miles they agreed and it all was a non-event.
EDIT to add: AFIS didn’t interfere with this either.
At first they didn’t sound to happy when we suggested that we would be number one
I was in simular situation once although Auto-Info airfield not AFIS, I asked the other guy to go first and be my guest, he suggested I go first as he has load of fuel, “civil aviation with manners”: none of us was in a hurry to sample cloudbase that day 
that we would fly 140 indicated to four miles they agreed and it all was a non-event.
You know what you are doing
Now imagine it if you didn’t.
The Fokker pilot realised you are a pro.
Also you have air brakes, I think.
