could you name a few non-radar airports with scheduled CAT?
I think it’s very common in Southern Europe, maybe whole Greece is procedural IFR? lot in Spain (I asked for vectors to ILS at 2230LT to Almeria, they told me they don’t have radar and I went back to fly DME arc, they have lot of scheduled CAT)
Anyway does anyone know why pilots self-initiate cancel IFR even when ATC/NAA allow IFR? where does this practice comes from? from above it seems this is not even an airliners SOP…
The same question about the benefit of filing Zulu/Yankee flight plan when India flight plan validates in Eurocontrol system?
Ibra wrote:
Anyway does anyone know why pilots self-initiate cancel IFR even when ATC/NAA allow IFR? where does this practice comes from? from above it seems this is not even an airliners SOP…
Because some airports (or rather their ATS) charge terminal charges for IFR but not VFR?
out of curiosity, could you name a few non-radar airports with scheduled CAT? Thanks!
I think there are plenty of those in Europe. Two I visited during the last month were EFLP (Lappeenranta, Finland) and EPLL (Lodz, Poland). Both are relatively quiet airports but have scheduled commercial passenger traffic.
LowTimePilot wrote:
I think there are plenty of those in Europe. Two I visited during the last month were EFLP (Lappeenranta, Finland) and EPLL (Lodz, Poland). Both are relatively quiet airports but have scheduled commercial passenger traffic.
Most AFIS airports in Sweden don’t even have approach control and CAT are using them just fine!
Most AFIS airports in Sweden don’t even have approach control and CAT are using them just fine!
That’s not the whole story though, is it? 
Peter wrote:
That’s not the whole story though, is it?
What do you mean “not the whole story”? (I honestly don’t understand what you’re implying.)
Many Scottish island airfields have no radar, and also some on the mainland. Islay, Tiree, Benbecula, Stornoway, on islands, and Wick on the mainland. Coll, Colonsay islands and Oban.and Dundee on the mainland are smaller hard runway examples.
Plus all the small Orkney and Shetland airfields served from Kirkwall and Lerwick. And Barra with its two-runway beach.
All with scheduled services.
There is an approach controller “somewhere”.
Peter wrote:
There is an approach controller “somewhere”.
No there is not! No, no, no. Why would it have to be? One thing is that the UK CAA insists on approach control. Other countries do not. There is nothing magic about approach control. If there were, how could aircraft with comfailure ever make an instrument approach?
General controlled airspace in Sweden starts at FL95. Any IFR aircraft destined for an AFIS airport will get a descent clearance at the appropriate time. Once the aircraft leaves controlled airspace it self navigates to the IAF and then follows the approach procedure. Separation is the pilot’s responsibility based on traffic information given by the AFIS unit. It is similar in Denmark, Finland and Norway at least.
Around some AFIS airports in the mountains, e.g. Hemavan ESUT there is no radar coverage below about 5000’ AAL. Yet, there is daily scheduled traffic to that airport.
Of course if cases where the IAP is (partially) in controlled airspace then you get approach control, but that’s not the norm. In fact, I think there is only one AFIS airport in Sweden where this is the case. In Continental Europe you end to see general controlled airspace at lower levels so maybe there you will always get approach control for AFIS airports.
Sweden may not have much GA at these places 
(definitely true for the Scottish cases, but they are not “airline” ops anyway) but how do you prevent somebody else flying the IAP concurrently? This topic has been done to death over many years and various countries implement various ways. For example France does it with a phone call after the previous plane landed (search for Laval). Spain does something similar IME. Nobody in Europe (or anywhere else AFAIK) does a complete “free for all” with no limitations on traffic and done 100% by self-announcement. Nor in the US, despite frequent claims (which are misinformed or disingenuous; they use a remote approach controller together with Class E). In the UK it can be done without approach control (search for Sywell) but with limitations. The limitations are likely to be “interesting” especially if not mentioned. Then there are remote approach controllers (Walney Island, paid for historically or currently by British Aerospace, Biggin Hill, with Thames Radar paid by Biggin Hill).
The comment about lost comms is disingenuous. It is an extremely rare scenario. 99% of CAT lost comms is not because all their radios broke or they got a total loss of electrics (which in an Airbus is AFAIK just hydraulic backup for rudder and elevator, no ailerons) but because they flew out of range of the last unit. The other 1% is probably somebody “doing a Germanwings”.
