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Google to Introduce Low Cost ADS-B Out boxes

Hmm grumpy grumpy. It reminds of an old joke; What would we do if the oceans suddenly disappeared? then we would have to carry the boats.

Drones are here to stay. They are already used to film all larger sporting events and other aerial photo work. They are used in surveillance for any number of things and by the military. Parcel delivery by Amazone/Google to individuals may or may not be a big thing, but the idea of purpose designed drones (of all sizes) delivering “stuff” has infinite possibilities far beyond this. Not to mention the infrastructure of sensors, navigation and communication technology needed to make it possible.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

You could ask the the recipient of a parcel to text when they’re ready to take delivery, and the drone wouldn’t land on your doorstep until you had confirmed you were ready. Pretty obvious who had stolen the drone then, and no need to take a signature for the parcel.

Flying in IMC isn’t a problem for them – a combination of GPS and solid-state gyros can take care of that. GPS jamming of failure (e.g. high buildings) could be a real problem. With lightning-fast reflexes I don’t think it would be impossible for drones to do see-and-avoid even in minimal visibility e.g. 50 feet. You could also have them back out of IMC conditions or do emergency landings without GPS but based only on the inertial and gyro sensors.

My main concern would be safety of them going wrong then falling on somebody’s head.

No show-stoppers; just a lot of work.

And even easier to track without the average punk even realising he is live on primetime TV from the moment he puts it in the trunk.

I wouldn’t say it is doomed to fail. I am just saying that some of the challenges appear to have no solution in currently known technology.

A drone which can carry 5lb (2.3kg) is small enough to easily go into the back of a car. Very easy to steal

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I would say the life expectancy of a drone costing a few k would be measured in minutes.

And so were the first cars. Yet nowadays, the UK alone buys 2.5 million new cars each year. There are certainly problems^Wchallenges to be solved, but fundamentally I still fail to see why it is doomed to fail.

LSZK, Switzerland

Isn’t that only accomplished by sky being very big?

It’s a combination of

  • big sky
  • very little GA activity on bad wx days (of the order of 1-5%)
  • extremely little traffic in IMC (in Class G)
  • pilots flying in IMC are not doing it where most “VFR” GA flies (~1500ft) but go a lot higher if they can
  • nearly everybody flying in IMC routinely (as opposed to doing it by accident) has a transponder
  • the pilots try to get a radar service
  • people who fly in IMC obviously have their nav well sorted and aren’t going to (usually) fly overhead some airfield at circuit height

Whereas in VMC and on nice days, every one of the above factors works the other way! Well, except the first one

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

That’s why I think these firms are really “floating a baloon”

I agree.

It is extremely safe.

Isn’t that only accomplished by sky being very big? How do you avoid an aircraft on a collision course while in a “soup.”

Last Edited by Martin at 08 Apr 11:30

I still see loads of problems.

Obviously Amazon or Google are not stupid, but how will they deal with a drone flying along at 100ft and hitting fog and then finding fog behind it. It will have to land. I would say the life expectancy of a drone costing a few k would be measured in minutes.

The more amusing thing will be all the websites which will spring up with custom firmware for re-flashing the drones Maybe there will be a Symbian image with support for the 360-degree camera?

Addressing these and other issues will take much more than mandatory ADS-B for all. That’s why I think these firms are really “floating a baloon” to (a) get loads of free publicity and (b) testing/forming public opinion.

Flying in IMC without a transponder is pretty much an aviation equivalent of Russian roulette.

It is extremely safe. UK, zero IMC midairs since WW2, and the UK is one of Europe’s two busiest GA countries.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I forgot to add that according to the mag article the FAA have not yet allowed Amazon to test the drones in public airspace.

I wasn’t assuming some NAA allowed it. I was just supporting an argument for additional sensors.

Sure they can create a visual detection system which works much better than the human eye

It should be possible however in aircraft you need significant range. Even cars use radars, LIDARs and millimeter-wave cameras and they top out I think at about 600 meters.

But it won’t work in IMC

Well, so doesn’t Mk.1 Eyeball. That’s why we have ATC and IFR. And there is CPDLC so it’d be possible for controllers to send commands to drones. Flying in IMC without a transponder is pretty much an aviation equivalent of Russian roulette.

But it won’t work in IMC

IFR usually means VMC below min 200ft. These delivery drones are IMO intended for the “last mile”, so they’re unlikely going to cruise at FL200, but rather operate close to the surface. So I still see visual sense and avoid a possibility for drones in VMC.

The only issue really is that the big sky theory that allows uncontrolled IFR in the UK is no longer going to work if the density of aerial vehicles grows significantly. And yes, that’s in the long run going to mean that all vehicles operating in IMC will need to radiate some sort of ADS-B like signal, whether the UK likes it or not… But hey, the part 145 cartel^Windustry needs a new job after everyone’s got 8.33kHz radios

LSZK, Switzerland
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