Peter wrote:
I genuinely wonder why the RAF needs these? Do air forces elsewhere in Europe use
The Swedish Air Force used QFE once, but that was a long time ago. QFE was certainly abandoned when the air force was adapted for international operations some 20 years ago by changing from the metric system for altitudes and distances and changing to English R/T.
LeSving wrote:
But then again, gliders use QFE, as well as meters and km/h.
That’s not universal in Europe, it is? In Sweden they do, but that’s because of the historical connection with the air force which used to use QFE/metres/km.
QFE may make sense for always “landings at my homebase” that is why military and gliders tend to use it, when flying A to B or altiports the thing just does not make sense, especially traffic and airspace…
Also, load of CFIT happended on QFE so I dont think it help much with terrain awareness
Airborne_Again wrote:
That’s not universal in Europe, it is?
Pretty much AFAIK. I’m not sure why, but I always thought it had to do with gliders being a German thing from way back. Metric has kind of stuck, not sure about the UK and US. QFE makes some sense. It is the easiest way to assure everybody has synchronized the altimeter. You don’t need to know the alt of the airport or the QNH, just set it to zero on the ground, works every time, everywhere. Today with digital instruments, GPS, FLARM, mobile phones, internet and radio, it all seems a bit “old”. Besides, some fly high, way above the transition altitude, into transponder land and feet FL
LeSving wrote:
It is the easiest way to assure everybody has synchronized the altimeter. You don’t need to know the alt of the airport or the QNH, just set it to zero on the ground, works every time, everywhere.
Only if everyone departed the same field.
I have no idea why the RAF is so insistent on two standards which make make very little sense to the rest of us, but I do know that they make a strong case (which I haven’t seen in detail). I assume that both are about not hitting the ground either enroute (they go everywhere at 250’) or the undershoot.
Surely there must be a current or ex-RAF type on here who can explain?
When I am arriving at many GA airfields in the UK I am given the QFE and have to ask for the QNH. I have therefore assumed that most VFR GA lands QFE. Is that not right? If it is, surely there must be hundreds of UK pilots, instructors and examiners here who can explain why it’s a good idea?
I still want to know what the “good operational reasons” mentioned above are.
When I am arriving at many GA airfields in the UK I am given the QFE and have to ask for the QNH. I have therefore assumed that most VFR GA lands QFE. Is that not right? If it is, surely there must be hundreds of UK pilots, instructors and examiners here who can explain why it’s a good idea?
Like a lot of things in GA, it works because most people, especially instructors and examiners, don’t “go anywhere”. If everybody flew into Europe, lots of things here in the UK would look ridiculous.
Timothy wrote:
I have therefore assumed that most VFR GA lands QFE
When I was taught the PPL (at White Waltham EGLM), all circuit work was done on the QFE. This might have partially been because the airfield supplies the QFE instead of the QNH when you’d call for airfield info (for rejoin, for instance).
North Weald EGSX used to only supply QFE when rejoining, but nowadays, at least for me, they give QNH or QFE and QNH. I think probably because some of us kept asking for QNH after they only gave QFE.
Regional QNH is used for low flying and descent from medium to low level for terrain clearance – as it is the lowest forecast, when compared to mapped terrain it will allow a safe altitude to be selected. The logic being that military aircraft are lower than normal traffic, operate away from airfields and can cross large sectors of the UK in relatively quick time.
QFE is used for talkdown and recovery still as it was always designed to make the numbers easy in a high workload cockpit – think single seat fast jet formation lead in IMC. It also allows comparison with radalt.
Not all UK military bases use QFE – Brize is QNH only ops for example.
[personal views and not an authority statement]
The “olde British thing” is QFE. It’s what “we” have always done, we won two world wars doing this, young man, and if it was good enough for your grandfather in the glory Battle of Britain days it is good enough for you, young man!
For max authenticity, the above is spoken with the CFI’s arm on the student’s shoulder or, in “slightly more southern” Europe not too far away, with the Club President’s hand on the female student’s thigh 
QFE breaks down the moment you even think “IFR” and “IAPs”.
Balliol wrote:
to make the numbers easy in a high workload cockpit
I actually think that is a reasonable point – as long as you understand what you are being given there is no doubt and no calculation are involved.
I know many will not agree with me, but I recall as a student never understanding why the wind was given as an actual value, rather that the crosswind component, as it was drummed into me how important the cross wind, involving mental calculations to arrive at the correct number. To me then just tell the pilot there was a 10knot crosswind from the left or right, thats all I wanted.
