it is illegal to cross a border into the EU with a Non EU licensed car if you reside in the EU without declaring the car.
Thanks for the clarification. I think I get it now 
I will put a post in the EU VAT thread with my next question
Mooney_Driver wrote:
it is illegal to cross a border into the EU with a Non EU licensed car if you reside in the EU without declaring the car.
That’s hard and bites people that live far from an EU border, but vacation near it. E.g. a Swede vacationing in Switzerland near any Swiss border, renting a car there and doing a short daytrip in any of Italy, France, Germany, …
There also is a “glass half full version” of this entire discussion: Just imagine how great the European Union is for all of us and how the last 40 years have changed our mindset when something that used to be completely normal at every single border just 40 years ago now feels like an ancient relict from medieval times.
I can still remember (having heard stories from other people who know other people which have heard…) putting the cases of French wine deep down in the car hoping that the French/German customs will not dig that deep…
It’s unfortunate, that the Swiss decided (I assume they have good reasons) not to be part of this great place called European Union. Let’s celebrate that most of geographic Europe is!
Mooney_Driver wrote:
In short: it is illegal to cross a border into the EU with a Non EU licensed car if you reside in the EU without declaring the car. Vice versa, it is illegal to cross the border to Switzerland as a Swiss resident in a non Swiss licensed car without declaring it. If you do declare it, you have the possibility to either pay VAT and duty as applicable or to get a transit paper which needs to be stamped on exit within a pre-defined short period of time, at least that is what I got told. If you fail to declare it, VAT and duty as applicable will be payable immediately.
You are pretty much saying that any European who rents from Avis, Europecar etc when on holiday in Switzerland and then takes that car into France, Italy, Austria, Lichtenstein or Germany is open to inadvertently breaking this law, because despite there being “a border” on 90% of occasions there is no one there to declare anything to even if you wanted to… Hell, Ive done this a half dozen times myself !! There has to be something else going on because if not, then there would be literally thousands and thousands of these cases every year and everyone would know about it, and hire car companies would be getting cars impounded all the time such that they would make it REALLY clear you cant drive their Swiss registered car into Europe. And of course vice-versa for a Swiss resident hiring a car in Europe…
Please confirm this is true, and why when a “Douane” has indeed stopped me, have I not had a problem?
Regards, SD..
It is possible the car rental companies have notified their number plates i.e. something like this. Or maybe did a deal with Customs that any car showing their logo will not be hit.
Note that the proposition in that link, which got widespread publicity in the UK social media a decade ago, was never confirmed, but clearly must exist, for obvious operational reasons.
Malibuflyer wrote:
Let’s celebrate that most of geographic Europe is!
The EU is an expensive and fragile bureaucratic invention. It’s cracking up in it seams as we speak. It’s kind of funny. Norway’s economic relation to the UK is mostly oil and gas and fish, along with related equipment and services (export to the UK). Already today all treaties and contracts are made, ready to be used when the UK (eventually) leaves the EU. Business as usual as if nothing has happened.
skydriller wrote:
Please confirm this is true, and why when a “Douane” has indeed stopped me, have I not had a problem?
For the opposite case (Swiss resident with EU-registered car into Switzerland), the situation seems to be clear. Quoting from the official Swiss customs info page:
People resident in Switzerland
In principle, you may not use an uncleared vehicle in Switzerland. You must spontaneously declare any vehicle(s) on which duty has not been paid for permanent importation into Switzerland to Swiss Customs at the border. This also applies to vehicles which relatives or acquaintances from abroad wish to cede to you. Special regulations only apply in a few cases.
You would like to rent a vehicle abroad from an official rental company and use it in Switzerland for private purposes, e.g. holidays.
You have to ask Swiss Customs for a temporary certificate form 15.25 for the vehicle when entering Switzerland. You can get this at all manned border crossings during opening hours in tourist traffic. With the temporary certificate form 15.25, you have eight days (from the beginning of the rental contract) to re-export the vehicle or return it to the rental company based in Switzerland. If you arrive in Switzerland more than five days after the start of the rental contract, the customs office will issue you with a temporary certificate form 15.25 for three days. You must be able to present the rental agreement concluded with the rental company at all times.
Offences
If you use an uncleared vehicle in Switzerland without authorisation or do not comply with formalities, you must pay the import duties for the vehicle (customs duty, automobile tax, value added tax) retroactively. In addition, you must be prepared for criminal customs proceedings to be initiated.
There is more customs info on temporary importation into Switzerland.
Urs, I am not sure that all this is generally well known amongst Swiss people. I have only heard it recently, and been crossing the border regularly (legally though) for more than a decade (funnily enough from a Blick or 20-Minuten article ;-).
In my experience, border checks are relatively rare, so the likelihood of “getting caught” are relatively slim. Furthermore, from my observations at the Geneva borders, I am doubtful whether Swiss customs at the French and Italian border crossings check and enforce as thoroughly as their Swiss-German colleagues.
Another (off-topic) example: Last year I was driving with my Swiss-registered car into downtown Stuttgart and got a ticket over EUR 120 because I didn’t have the green environment placard (“Umweltplakette”). As this is not a thing in Switzerland, neither me nor my friends had never heard about before, but Germans obviously know about this very well.
Zorg wrote:
If you use an uncleared vehicle in Switzerland without authorisation or do not comply with formalities, you must pay the import duties for the vehicle (customs duty, automobile tax, value added tax) retroactively. In addition, you must be prepared for criminal customs proceedings to be initiated.
And THAT is the problem.
If you do not obey these rules by accident, “criminal customs proceedings” would, at worst, end up with a fine.
Having to pay tax/customs that would not be due if you obeyed the rules is 10-100 times as much as a reasonable fine, and entirely disproportionate.
If the poor chap had to pay 500 Euro penalty, he would grumble, pay up and move on, in the same way you paid your 120 Euro.
skydriller wrote:
You are pretty much saying that any European who rents from Avis, Europecar etc when on holiday in Switzerland and then takes that car into France, Italy, Austria, Lichtenstein or Germany is open to inadvertently breaking this law, because despite there being “a border” on 90% of occasions there is no one there to declare anything to even if you wanted to…
I know it is true if you borrow a car from a private citizen. And I found this remark within a EU site:
Driving a hired car in another country
If you’re planning to drive your rental vehicle in several countries you must inform the rental company when booking the vehicle. If it allows you to take the vehicle to another country than the visited one, it can ensure you have the correct vehicle documentation, insurance and breakdown cover.
If you live in the EU and you rent a car in a non-EU country, such as Switzerland, special rules apply when driving it in EU countries.
If you plan to travel with your rental car both in EU and non-EU countries – for example from Switzerland to France, Germany, Austria or Italy – you need to tell the rental company in advance. They can provide you with an EU-registered car in order to comply with EU customs laws. Most car rental companies in Switzerland provide cars with EU number plates for EU residents in order to comply with EU customs rules, but you should check with your car rental company.
The car rental company must also ensure that the car complies with the customs and traffic rules of the country where you will travel. For example, in many countries winter tyres are compulsory during certain months of the year.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/driving-abroad/car-rental-abroad/index_en.htm
So it appears indeed that rental car companies have special cars for this, which can be taken abroad while others can’t. Basically, ask the company and tell them if you plan on crossing from/to the EU in a rental car.
I know that there have been problems for people who rented cars e.g from garages as a replacement after a breakdown. I almost got caught in this as well, when I had a rental from my garage and by the by mentioned i was planning to go shopping in Germany that afternoon. I was told in very strong terms that I am not allowed to do that as they had a car confiscated there before and there was “hell to pay” to get it back. As for the opposite, it was posted already. Swiss people who rent cars or campers or what not in the EU have regularly have had very unpleasant wake up calls when they unwittingly drove it into Switzerland and were not aware they were not allowed to do that.
This has been a learning experience for many, I am sure…
If I got it right, the lesson is this:
You cannot bring a vehicle (or an aircraft) into the EU unless
Fail to meet any of the above conditions and the EU Customs can hit you for the VAT and other stuff.
Since you cannot own an N-reg unless you are a US citizen or Green Card holder, any N-reg is vulnerable for the import VAT hit, upon any landing in the EU, even at a Customs post, unless you have a Certificate of Free Circulation or equivalent. And this brings us to this old EU VAT discussion.
In aviation terms, taking the communities that do the most international flying, this affects mostly the Swiss and post-brexit UK pilots. And of course anyone living in the Channel Islands.
