It doesn’t work for everything 
Stuff like taxation comes with a strict liability, generally…
In your case, sue the QC. He will have professional liability insurance for this precise reason. Accountants do also.
Peter wrote:
Stuff like taxation comes with a strict liability, generally…In your case, sue the QC. He will have professional liability insurance for this precise reason. Accountants do also
Really? Just two pages ago you pretended that in the UK the tax authorities (and we are talking about VAT here) would waive taxes if you applied due diligence. And in the case we are discussing that “due diligence” was not even asking a certified tax advisor or a lawyer but just a guy at the airport.
Two pages later you pretend they don’t and you have to sue the guy at the airport….
Cobalt wrote:
But can I ask a simple question – do you really argue that in this case, 30k is a fair punishment fitting the act?
It’s not a punishment – it’s a consequence of what he did.
Is it a fair “punishment” if you buy those wirecard stocks just a day before they declare bankruptcy and you loose all your money (or should the bank take back these stocks because it would be unfair punishment for such a small mistake?
Is it a fair “punishment” that you have to pay this 100k turbine inspection just because you failed to observe the torque for some seconds?
Malibuflyer wrote:
But can I ask a simple question – do you really argue that in this case, 30k is a fair punishment fitting the act?It’s not a punishment – it’s a consequence of what he did.
Malibuflyer, the question is which method has he used to check.
All of us were taught as part of Air Law that you have to read AIP. AIP will DEFINITELY tell you. Well, it does not, as we now know.
He read such AIP and many people here noticed that it was confusing and inaccurate.
He called the AD and a person there said “all is going to be fine”.
Yes, now I know that if I ever fly to DE then the I REALLY need to go through a customs/immigration AD.
But coming back to the question of penalty – yes, it was a penalty.
It would have been OK if he has actually imported an aircraft, but he did NOT.
Which means that he is being extorted the money for the services that he did not consume or paying tax for the transaction he did not complete.
Actually, interesting question – if his flying club sells that aircraft to a German person/organisation, do they have to pay customs duty? :)
arj1 wrote:
Actually, interesting question – if his flying club sells that aircraft to a German person/organisation, do they have to pay customs duty? :)
I guess it’s VAT (+20%) rather than Duties (3%), aircraft should be ok to sell in Europe with VAT paid
arj1 wrote:
It would have been OK if he has actually imported an aircraft, but he did NOT.
According to Malibuflyer it’s crystal clear it’s an import (malgres-vous!) from this NOTAM, I suggest they re-write that NOTAM “+otherwise will be subject to 30% VAT”
“ENTRY INTO OR EXIT FROM THE TERRITORY OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF
GERMANY IS ONLY PERMITTED VIA THE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORTS AND VIA THE
AERODROMES AUTHORIZED BY CUSTOMS AND FEDERAL POLICE.”
Ibra wrote:
“ENTRY INTO OR EXIT FROM THE TERRITORY OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF
GERMANY IS ONLY PERMITTED VIA THE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORTS AND VIA THE
AERODROMES AUTHORIZED BY CUSTOMS AND FEDERAL POLICE.”
But how would you know which ones are authorised?
In English?
arj1 wrote:
But how would you know which ones are authorised?
If you are a German pilot flying HB-reg you should know, if you are a Swiss pilot flying HB-reg I suggest you land in Berlin or Frankfurt just to be sure
Sorry for being sarcastic, but this is really how it worked in that case !
Malibuflyer wrote:
It’s not a punishment, it’s a consequence of what he did
Fortunately, the higher courts in many countries see through what something is called or not called, and look at the effect something has. If it only arises if you fail to follow a certain procedure (in this case, landing first at A and not at B), then it is a penalty for not following the procedure. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.
arj1 wrote:
All of us were taught as part of Air Law that you have to read AIP. AIP will DEFINITELY tell you.
1. I was never told that AIP will answer any legal question I might have concerning tax and border protection issues. I wouldn’t even think about consulting the AIP if I wanted to figure out how I had to handle tax issues. AIP is for the airlaw questions.
2. In this case the NOTAM even said that you must only use a customs airport and he did not comply with that.
3. He asked someone with no authority whatsoever but happily took his word for granted as he was telling him what he wanted to hear
arj1 wrote:
It would have been OK if he has actually imported an aircraft, but he did NOT.
He not only brought the aircraft over a customs border, but he also used it for flights within Germany (so from one German airfield to another airfield). What else does it take to import an aircraft if not this (w/o explicitly telling the authorities that he doesn’t want to import what he would do when entering through a customs airport)?
If one can drive from City A to City B with a Swiss registered car in Germany without paying import fees (or even getting an import fee waiver) it is ludicrous to suggest using the privately-owned plane to do the same qualifies as “import”.
Malibuflyer wrote:
arj1 wrote: All of us were taught as part of Air Law that you have to read AIP. AIP will DEFINITELY tell you.1. I was never told that AIP will answer any legal question I might have concerning tax and border protection issues. I wouldn’t even think about consulting the AIP if I wanted to figure out how I had to handle tax issues. AIP is for the airlaw questions.
2. In this case the NOTAM even said that you must only use a customs airport and he did not comply with that.
3. He asked someone with no authority whatsoever but happily took his word for granted as he was telling him what he wanted to hear
1. That’s the problem, in some countries it works, in other it does not.
2. And how would you know if it is a customs airports?
3. How would I know if it is a right person? So I called customs, no answer. Wrote an e-mail, no answer. Then someone tells me that this is the wrong Customs office.
You see that is the problem – an airman cannot easily determine if he/she breaks the law.
Say I landed at Hannover and for some reason customs are not there at that moment. I have to pay again?
I could be, if there is some special procedure that tells you how determine if customs are active right now.
You see there is always way to misinterpret SOME text to make a person pay, but I would expect this to be a case for countries like Russia and not in the EU.
Malibuflyer wrote:
arj1 wrote: It would have been OK if he has actually imported an aircraft, but he did NOT.He not only brought the aircraft over a customs border, but he also used it for flights within Germany (so from one German airfield to another airfield). What else does it take to import an aircraft if not this (w/o explicitly telling the authorities that he doesn’t want to import what he would do when entering through a customs airport)?
Well and then exported again, right? Otherwise you have to pay for everything you travel with every time you cross a border.
Yes, I know that customs would prefer you do exactly that.
