1.5 euro cents per unit is incredibly cheap.
You lucky Norwegians. At that price I wouldn’t bother putting in solar panels and I definitely get one of the new 120Kw home car chargers and an electric car. Even if I did have to pay over €1000 for the charger. I think I would still take advantage of the battery leasing deals that Graham thinks are BS.
LeSving wrote:
I chose spot price (Nord Pool prices) because it’s the only real price around (all the speculations for the prices are set and done one day ahead, and you pay for what you actually use at any given time). The only thing I would guess that statistics you showed is, is some average price for the entire country. What people have paid in average.
It would be the average, yes. I know how NordPool works as I also have a spot price plan. Sweden is also divided into price areas.
The spot price is not very interesting because it is a … spot price! The interesting thing is what people actually pay over time. Then you also have to add transmission fees, taxes and deduct subsidies. That’s what Statistics Norway did.
As I said, the other day I got paid for using electricity. That’s noteworthy but not very relevant. Also the spot prices now and in winter are very, very, different.
gallois wrote:
I definitely get one of the new 120Kw home car chargers
Why? 120 kW charger is seriously expensive to install (not likely to be possible at all due to the power lines at your home), and completely wasted for home use in any case. On average 0.3 kW is enough, but you cannot get that low. The lowest is 2.3 kW (10 A single phase), which is more than enough. The “norm” today is 7 kW (33 A single phase). Which already is way more than needed.
LeSving wrote:
120 kW charger is seriously expensive to install (not likely to be possible at all due to the power lines at your home), and completely wasted for home use in any case. On average 0.3 kW is enough, but you cannot get that low. The lowest is 2.3 kW (10 A single phase), which is more than enough.
So far I have used a 3,3 kW (16 A single phase) portable charger at home which has worked well, but I will change to an 11 kW (16 A three-phase) stationary charger to make more efficient use of my new solar panel installation. (And also to better balance the current draw over the phases – if you need lots of electricity for other purposes such as heating, you can reduce to 10 A while still getting a very decent 7 kW.)
The “norm” today is 7 kW (33 A single phase). Which already is way more than needed.
The “norm” may differ between Norway and Sweden. I’d say that for home installations in Sweden 11 kW three-phase is the norm.
The norm here is also 7Kw at €300 to install.
The 120Kw AFAIU is a battery array which continuously recharges or charges on a timer.
They act a bit like those units (UPSs?) that you used to attach your computer to in case of a power cut.
At 120Kw the more modern EVs can be recharged at home within an hour or so.
I can’t be more specific as it is only something I have seen advertised and not investigated.
The 120Kw. If it is a smart battery pack would also be a good back up domestically in case power failure in winter or even to store solar power (not needed in Norway ) for night tume use.
I wonder how much Norway is charging the UK for the electricity it is selling across its interconnector. Someone must be making a great deal of money there.
I have 36Kva across 3 phases but could easily go to 18Kva on each phase.
What I could use is a natural gas powered car, using American produced gas at $0.073 per kW-hr… as per my latest bill, received today. At 40% engine + gearbox efficiency that would deliver power to the wheels for 18 cents per kW-hr. No wonder the local buses and garbage trucks run on it.
In the same bill was my electric bill summary for last month, shown below. In my house we use as much electricity as we want (the cost is not a substantial part of my monthly budget) but it’s not so much, and so we remain in the ‘inexpensive’ price tier… which is $0.45/kW-hr. No way I’d buy utility power at that price to power a car when gasoline (never mind cheap natural gas) is probably slightly cheaper per mile and provides much better utility.
@Silvaire you do pay a lot for your electricity. Do you also have a standing charge and does that include all taxes?
I have just got a car which can run on unleaded fuel or LPG (GPL here). I run it most of the time on the gas but it does need the fuel to start it.
The LPG is much cheaper less than €1 per liter
The other upsides are that it is cleaner for both the engine and the environment and seems to also make the acceleration better than on the petrol.
Downsides are that there is only 1 LPG pump in the local town and it needs to be paid for at the kiosk which has limited opening hours.
It also uses more gas per 100km than the equivalent petrol or diesel model.
The Government target to reduce the number of diesel engine cars on the road is also pushing the price of the diesel variety up so that there is now a big difference in purchase price. The diesel is now up there with the EV versions, but with the EVs there are better all inclusive deals to be done and the government also give a prime (grant/subvention) towards the price where as the diesel and petrol vehicles carry a malus (tax/charge) which pays for the prime on EVs.
Buying new now you need a maths degree to take everything into account.
In the UK 79% of electric vehicles are bought by fleet operators because of the tax advantages to the staff as company vehicles. It is causing major depreciation in the 2nd hand market for EVs but also causing a shortage of pre used petrol and diesel vehicles.
Graham, could you explain why you hold that a low population density is good for the availability of public charging stations when it is bad for the availability of all other services e.g. shops, government services, pharmacies, hairdressers, you name it…
In the UK 79% of electric vehicles are bought by fleet operators because of the tax advantages
Actually most are hybrids. I see this near where I work. Most of those cars do no more than 30 miles on the battery, and use diesel after that. But they get huge tax concessions.
AFAICT there are very few fleet operators using pure EVs. It would be dumb, given their high prices and heavy depreciation (remember depreciation has to be paid for by the customer in the form of finance payments; there is no magic) and the fact that most employees would have no use for them (for reasons already discussed – poor charging opportunities). I could not use an EV even if you gave me one for free, unless I could charge at home, which most people can’t.
