My experience joining (and leaving) a group (syndicate)

The full tanks rule is a problem though because nearly all GA planes cannot carry all seats filled and full tanks.

So communication is required, so the next flyer and “register the wish” to not have the plane delivered with full tanks. A hard rule like that makes most 4-seat planes a 2-seater only.

A solution practiced by some is to drain full tanks to the necessary level before flight. A ex-airline captain friend doesn’t like to carry more fuel than necessary for many e.g. aerobatic or other short flights, but fills the plane after most flights. He’s got draining fuel down to an art, putting the fuel back in after landing and generally calling the fuel truck for the top off. Then if the next flight is a long one, he’s ready to go.

Probably not practical if your total fuel capacity is more than say 40 USG.

Peter wrote:

The full tanks rule is a problem though because nearly all GA planes cannot carry all seats filled and full tanks.

So communication is required, so the next flyer and “register the wish” to not have the plane delivered with full tanks. A hard rule like that makes most 4-seat planes a 2-seater only.

Indeed. For a four seater it seems bizarre to have a fill it up rule.

With the TB10 we have a don’t refuel rule for precisely that reason. If someone needs more, they can add it. Taking it out is trickier.

It works extremely well and we’ve never have a problem. Sometimes someone will need it particularly light and will explain their plans on the group Whatsapp. Then the person flying before them might put in slightly less before their flight (e.g. 3/4 full rather than full) so as to return it with less.

I’ve been in this group for about 10 years, and there’s literally never been a single problem about fuel. Or anything else really. It’s all about the people, which is why it’s important to meet them first. A$$holes are usually fairly obvious.

With the TB10 we have a don’t refuel rule for precisely that reason

The problem, however, is that in nearly all GA scenarios it is a real hassle to have to fill up before a flight.

Most European GA flights are time-bounded by a) the airport opening time (sunrise, 8am, whatever) and by b) the airport closing time (sunset, 8pm, whatever). Then further bounded by pump hours (e.g. opening plus 1hr, closing minus 1hr). It is a real PITA when somebody lands at closing minus 10 mins because a) the next flyer can’t fly too far and b) the previous flyer is prob99 not going to turn up the following morning to top the tanks off.

There is really one solution: communication. You set up a Whatsapp or Telegram group and force all members to use it. If they are not on the internet, they cannot join. They cannot really fly anywhere without the internet, anyway.

A$$holes are usually fairly obvious.

Indeed, but most syndicates hide the assholes very diligently when accepting a new member I had that way back… luckily I later found more £££ and bought my own plane.

While a dumb rule (why carry unnecessary weight?), filling up isn’t a huge issue in a C182. These things can carry a lot. In our club, we usually fill ours up to 60gls and if someone needs more, he tops off preflight.

I don’t think the OP did anything wrong. Au contraire: getting out of this shitshow of a group was a wise decision. If someone tries to hide a nicked prop, as apparently that guy ‘Mike’ tried to, then the only way is the highway.

One thing, however, intrigues me: hitting the wheels on the top of a truck?? Can we learn more?

Due diligence on this kind of thing isn’t easy, as unpleasant characters aren’t always obvious outside their immediate environment, and the kind of people you might ask (other members, hangar neighbours, airfield management) are unlikely to give a straight answer to a stranger.

You got away lightly, and being bought out is the perfect solution.

The alternative is they make your life hell so you either pay monthly fees and don’t fly, or leave at a (up to 100%) loss.

I have a jaundiced view of syndicates, in that a majority subsidises the flying costs and satisfies the egos of a minority. Codified rules only apply when it suits the leadership. The existing members know the unspoken rules, and you find them out the hard way when you’re new, i.e. after you’ve joined, and too late.

That said, there must be functional syndicates out there. Better luck next time

boscomantico wrote:

Not entirely unlikely that their rules say that all defects must be reported (only) to Mike. Many groups have such rule. I

That’s totally crazy. We’re talking about a group of 5 people! Why should not everyone be made aware of the condition of the aircraft as everyone could potentially want to fly it?

In most groups / syndicates there is one guy who runs it – either by some sort of “default”

or by having a dominating personality. I know of one which had one of the latter and he kept doing the same flight EGKA-LFAT and pocketing the duty drawback (£120 on a TB20) which was funded by the others doing mostly intra-UK flights. Nobody had the will to tackle him.

As regards fuel endurance, remember Europe has a lot less availability of runways than the US, so many/most flights need to depart with full tanks.

I once bought a 1/8th share in a popular historic training aircraft.
Shortly after I bought it I discovered no end play in the crank and a prop that wouldn’t return after being pushed against a compresion stroke.
I told the group that this represented a potential engine failure and was vilified. I was lucky that the seller agreed to refund me (I think to his credit this was more out of embarrassment than any legal duty) and I subsequently bought the Falco and ended up sharing the same hanger with the old group.
A couple of years and many flying hours later an engineer arrived and removed the engine. Some months later I saw him return and install a new engine, leaving the old one with its cracked block on on the hanger floor……..
There are some clowns about.