This thread references the change in the approach ban regulation.
I was not tempted by ILS to DA to have a look…I gather it would have been legal to descend under 1000ft agl even with no intention to land ?
Ibra wrote:
Can you land on runway? likely no, unless you are VTOL
That was my point…
It will drop to 400m on surface along the runway, at 500ft agl you are still sitting on top with 100km forward visibility
Ibra wrote:
Your scenario is very plausible with shallow fog layers, you can see runway numbers, identify thresholds and spot the tower as you pass overhead at 1000ft agl with good vertical visbility, you can’t takeoff or land on ILS as it’s banned by RVR, I saw this at Exeter once, after few orbits we diverted to Dunkeswell that was sitting on the hill with VMC on top conditions !
So what would happen to your flight visibility as you actually were about to touch down in these conditions?
Under IFR, you can legally descend bellow FAF/1000ft agl to land off airport, land before threshold, or circle to land on another runway using visual references on direct visual approach (VA) or circle approach (CTL), for these the visbility is “pilot interpreted”…the measured RVR is only controlling on threshold & touchdown for the IFR instrument runway for which that RVR is published
You can cancel IFR and fly VFR and land while you “maintain cockpit VMC”, if it’s two crew you may need to agree with the other pilot on a visbility figure
I have not tried any of the above, just theoretical understanding
Another theoritical question, if RVR at runway mid point = 5000m and RVR at touchdown point is 500m due to fog blanket, can I land very long?
Your scenario is very plausible with shallow fog layers, you can see runway numbers, identify thresholds and spot the tower as you pass overhead at 1000ft agl with good vertical visbility, you can’t takeoff or land on ILS as it’s banned by RVR, I saw this at Exeter once, after few orbits we diverted to Dunkeswell that was sitting on the hill with VMC on top conditions !
So I haven’t seen this answered and I’m aware the rules for part-nco have changed. Say though, that you are flying part-cat and you are visual with the runway and can remain visual, but RVR is reported as being below minimums could you continue through the 1000 ft / FAP?
What if MDH>1000ft agl, do they report +10km RVR ?
I think it’s important to also note that for RVR once you are on approach and you have descended through the 1000ft gate (you should look at it as a gate) any consequent RVR readings from the Tower that are lower than the RVR required can be discarded by the pilot.
So you get the ATIS which gives you RVR1500M ceiling 400ft you pass the IAF, descend on the approach and pass 1000 ft above ground level, the controller gives you an update to the RVR which now is 400m with a ceiling of 250ft (or even lower than that) you are legal to continue to approach and land if visual reference to the runway is acquired.
gallois wrote:
Minimum at these is 400m…..you can also ask for it at an airfield equipped with RVR if you don’t believe or accept the readings
So you are allowed down to that without Tower ATC, that is good to know, I taught Viball only applied when you have ATC+RVR (and lights on) for takeoff? you may have to say that “don’t believe in RVR” as those who are not in France may not be familiar
gallois wrote:
You often can’t get radio contact until 2500ft or radar contact. So you are in a bit of a no man’s land/air, which you.should probably treat as VFR to be safe. I’m not sure if there is an actual regulation to cover it, but I’m sure as with many things in aviation one will be found if things go wrong. IMO one takes the common sense approach.
ATC likes you to stay outside controlled airspace until you are well identified & separated, it does not mean you are VFR but it means if radio & radar are not established on that departure and you are IMC you better act to stay in no man’s land rather than going freestyle in their busy airspace…
Of course no regulation covers it but in many countries things are crystal clear, no ATC/AFIS = VFR departure & Z-FPL but it’s a long way between 500ft for VFR VMC and 4000ft ATC MVA unless it’s CAVOK all the time
In France/UK, things are bit grey as you can do IFR departure & I-FPL with no ATC/AFIS but I was not sure you can go down to aerodrome plates takeoff minima? my assumption was 1.5km visibility is all you need, maybe 10ft ceiling? (you are not coming back anyway, it’s outgoing only in NCO, you don’t need takeoff alternate nor factor engine failure on departure or plan a return)
