UK licenses will not be recognised for the purpose of flying EASA aircraft.
Same as pre-JAA in that case. But even during JAA you needed
In fact the above was true during a number of “EASA years”. And post-Germanwings the UK CAA won’t recognise German medicals 
The other thing is that within UK airspace the UK CAA will be able to allow any plane to be flown on any ICAO license – just like the USA does (FAR 61.3) for their N-regs.
Most likely a deal would be done on this, however, via some version of the JAA mutual-validation scheme.
This is good for British export companies but not so good for British consumers.
That’s true; however in a typical business which actually makes something, the materials are perhaps 25% of the selling price. I have seen little real change in material prices. Some uplift in US chips… I don’t have any stats on this but the stuff which you see hanging out of peoples’ shopping bags on the High Street is mainly Chinese crap like £1 t-shirts and if these go up to £1.20 nobody will care. Or the DVD player going up by £10. It will hurt people if the BMW or whatever goes up by 20% but (a) BMW will drop their price for UK customers because they need to compete (b) it will help UK built cars (I am not going to mention that somebody’s Aston Martin DB9 paint came off after 1 year) and (c) BMW etc will put a lot of pressure on a realistic deal to be done, probably at the last minute when Mrs Merkel gets involved.
It’s the other way around
Depends on how much time you have left before the big battle starts 
In this case you have over a year to haggle about this stuff, beating your chest and posturing…
So, as you can see, I am relatively optimistic. Also the UK is where Justine and I now live and we are not ever moving, so it would be a bit crap to be wishing that our country melts down (as many on the Continent are wishing).
But for the rest of us, stuck with EASA. Was the UK a voice of reason there, or just the normal UK way (weird and strange) ? I mean, will EASA be better or worse without the UK? I’m thinking GA here.
alioth wrote:
Which is fundamentally anti-democratic and contrary to the principles of the EU.
So? It is also “Machtpolitik” and that was the fundamental reason several countries had ideas of leaving in the first place. Now that one does, the powerhose of the leading EU states has all the reasons to see that no more are doing the same. Ergo, they have to prove to the rest of their membership that for leaving there is a devil to pay!
Jacko wrote:
Whatever each of us thinks of the Brexit vote, at some stage European GA owners and pilots may need to quit bickering and work together to minimise (or route around) any such damage.
True. All of them have to do that, including the EU and Britan. Whether that is going to happen is another question. But you are right, in the end it will be up to us individuals to see how we can get past these problems.
LeSving wrote:
Was the UK a voice of reason there, or just the normal UK way (weird and strange) ? I mean, will EASA be better or worse without the UK? I’m thinking GA here.
Difficult to say. One bit nobody really is looking forward to is to see the LBA getting more influence by one of the major players leaving. On the other hand, the UK has in the past been described as also quite difficult and complex to deal with and rather for restrictive rulings than relaxed ones, but if that is true we will only see if they leave. I would assume however that they must have rather been a voice of reason as contrary to other major players, as far as I know the UK never so far has been reprimanded or even threatened with legal action for not implementing EASA ruling or obstructing doing so. Other members have. So I guess the UK would be a loss for GA, even if they become a non-voting member such as Switzerland.
LeSving wrote:
But for the rest of us, stuck with EASA.
As far as I am concerned EASA is one of the best things that has happened to GA in many years although it was not obvious from the start.
Aviathor wrote:
As far as I am concerned EASA is one of the best things that has happened to GA in many years although it was not obvious from the start.
I agree
Posts not related to aviation have been moved to the usual place
Peter wrote:
And post-Germanwings the UK CAA won’t recognise German medicals
not true.. In fact my annual class 1 appointment with DLR in Cologne for my CAA-based license is due in November
It was all over the GA press at the time, so evidently it has been “fixed” since.
It didn’t surprise anyone since a German medical could be obtained by anyone who passed the “AME inspection” – because the AME could not legally demand the sight of the pilot’s medical records, so the pilot could lie, and do so effectively without repercussions. I also doubt that a nondisclosure to the AME invalidated one’s aircraft insurance since probably even an accident investigator could not get the medical records, routinely.
So I wonder how they fixed it… You cannot get any UK CAA medical unless you sign a form authorising them to get your medical records.
Peter wrote:
So I wonder how they fixed it… You cannot get any UK CAA medical unless you sign a form authorising them to get your medical records.
In the US and much of the rest of the world, and particularly for ‘international’ people, that would be pointless because there is no single place where an individual’s medical records could be obtained by an AME, and the AME would likely have no legal access to records outside of the nation that issued the medical application. Instead, I think what happens is that the AME demands that the pilot produce whatever records are required by him, from wherever the pilot needs to get them. Obviously that leaves open the possibility that the pilot could omit to declare visits to doctors on his medical application, covering up the whole issue, and nobody would be the wiser. But that’s true in many other areas of life: if you’re willing to flat out lie (in writing) you can often go a long way until you get caught, but with major unwanted consequences to follow when something triggers a deeper investigation.
The way Silvaire describes it is actually the way it is and has always been in Germany. The UK is peculiar with its central data collection via NHS. No such thing exists in most other countries. If I move to the UK (which I still can) and seek a first time medical, they will have zero information on me and I can hide whatever I want.
There wasn’t anything really wrong with the Germanwings/Lubitz case from the medical side. In the early days during his ATPL training, they made an effort to get him a medical after a psychological episode and from then on he lied and cheated. Giving people a chance to continue their dream career is actually a good thing. The alternative is to ground everybody for good on the slightest suspicion.
The reason German medicals were (and still are) not accepted in some international cases has nothing to do with this. It’s a German internal pissing contest where the LBA was denied access to AME files by the German data privacy law (LBA are not doctors, medical information is bound by doctor patient privilege in Germany) and the LBA’s person in charge came up with a clever plan how to fight back — declare to every third party asking for confirmation of medical records per ICAO/EASA responsibility that they “do not have the required information”. The idea is to strongarm the legislator into giving them the desired access.
If you try to obtain a 61.75 PPL validation in the USA using a German EASA PPL, the FAA will email LBA and ask whether it’s true that Hans Pilot has a Class II medical according to ICAO standards. LBA will respond “we do not have access to the medical data and cannot confirm”. A pure pissing contest. This particular case can be solved by getting an extra FAA medical which is easy to get in Germany. A more difficult situation arises when you want to move your EASA license from Germany to another country following the EASA prescribed process. Germany will not cooperate telling the requesting state that they “do not have the required information”. So currently people with Germany issued EASA licenses are held by the LBA as prisoners of war. A rather crazy situation.
