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Brexit and general aviation, UK leaving EASA? (merged)

The most obvious is that the anti N-reg attack in EASA FCL would be explicitly void – because the “operator” would be non EU resident. That would be great news for the foreign reg community (which makes up the bulk of the private IFR community) due to no more annual revalidations etc, and superb news for those who have not yet done the EASA IR.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I dont think it would be added difficulties in accessing foreign land, and being non-schengen we have those slight difficulties anyhow.

I think the main concern would be a lack of harmonisation in rule making. I assume even outside of the EU, the UK would have to comply with international ICAO policy. But I do wonder if left to their own devices whether the CAA would actually apply sensible and rational rule making without the the big brother of EASA leaning on them all day long? I’d like to think so, but thinking generally here, I dont think EASA has been a bad thing has it? OK, we could all cite at least one thing we dont like, but no one will be 100% happy. Generally harmonisation of rules is a good thing (though selfishly we only like the ones that suit us as individuals or groups, and dont like the ones that dont suit us), and from what I can see EASA has been pretty fair, and concerning the IMCr – quite accomodating. Its like the ‘Life of Brian’ quote “What have the Romans (replace that with EASA) ever done for us”, besides good thing number 1, good thing number 2 and so on……

Me personally, I am not a massive pro-Euro, but I quite like the being part of it thing, but not being controlled by it thing – an average Conservative maybe. Happy to be in it, but please leave our pound coins alone if you dont mind… But I wouldnt vote to leave the EU, and I get the feeling inside that GA wouldnt actually be a better place outside it. Something I am not totally comfortable in acknowledging it has to be said.

Last Edited by PiperArcher at 02 Dec 15:16

For us: The already small number of business flights to the UK (compared to countries like Italy, France or Spain) would drop to almost zero, as our clients would select new business partners and suppliers within the EU.

EDDS - Stuttgart

I can’t wait until we do leave, which I am sure is inevitable as Brussels gets even more used to imposing unwanted regulation on all parts of our lives.

One change might be to get back to a UK CAA which is a world leader in professional and pragmatic aeronautical regulation instead of behaving, as it now does, as though it is the enforcement branch of an occupying power.

I will be keeping my UK licence alive for the future!

For us: The already small number of business flights to the UK (compared to countries like Italy, France or Spain) would drop to almost zero, as our clients would select new business partners and suppliers within the EU.

Do you do many flights to Switzerland or Norway? Not a loaded question, I have no strong views but I see those countries as having many of the benefits of EU membership without the impositions of the European Parliament. There would be no reason to change business partners unless there was a tariff barrier or similar, and the European Free Trade Area ensures this is not the case.

There is already one major reason why someone in the EU would not choose to do business in the UK, and that is that the UK has not adopted the Euro. However, that reason has not resulted in a wholesale loss of the UK’s export market in Europe.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Do you do many flights to Switzerland or Norway?

Switzerland: Yes, because it is close by and still a good hiding place for money. But maybe the UK outside the EU would become one of those too.
Norway: In all my years of commercial flying (starting in 1992): One single flight.

There is already one major reason why someone in the EU would not choose to do business in the UK, and that is that the UK has not adopted the Euro. However, that reason has not resulted in a wholesale loss of the UK’s export market in Europe.

Worse would be import duties on British products which the EU could (and probably would) impose. Those would hurt the British industry hard. As a consequence, the foreign car manufacturers (GM, Volkswagen, BMW, …) might drop their British brands which, I suppose, would be very bad.

Last Edited by what_next at 02 Dec 16:40
EDDS - Stuttgart

UK → EU →UK flights would now be subject to customs controls in both directions.

What this would mean in practice I don’t know. I suppose nothing much would change from the EU side, and flights from EU to UK require a “customs” airport anyway.

It would certainly create difficult questions for the Irish authorities. I suppose Ireland would have to leave the common travel area, as customs checks would be required for entry/exit of the EU.

EIWT Weston

One change might be to get back to a UK CAA which is a world leader in professional and pragmatic aeronautical regulation instead of behaving, as it now does, as though it is the enforcement branch of an occupying power.

Thanks for the laugh, that quote made my day!

Andreas IOM

Ouch, what an oildrum full of worms that one opens

Generally and also aviation related: The UK would become an independent country again, with all the pros and cons to that. What impact on aviation this would have, is a totally other issue. It depends strongly, how the UK would choose to continue on this path, with EASA or without it. Chances are, that even if the UK left the EU, it would not leave associated organisations such as EASA, but then become, like Switzerland, a signatory state without any influence over the rulemaking. That is the worst case scenario of course, but it is pretty much the one we currently experience in Switzerland.

In order to become independent from that, the UK would have to leave EASA totally. Which of couse could, given this was the intention of your then “liberated” CAA, mean that the UK could take the place of the FAA, the Isle of Man and other such flags of convenience for European pilots. If the UK would go ahead and change their rulemaking to produce a user friendly, customer related and up front aviation system, I reckon a lot of N-Reg pilots and owners would flock over to the UK. The downside of this would be that G-Reg aircraft would most likely not be flyable and useable by fellow European pilots, nor could UK licensed pilots fly European airplanes without validations, basically as it used to be before. But they could of course introduce the same kind of IR France has introduced e.t.c. What they WOULD do, is a different story entirely, but they would be free to do that.

Which of couse would cause the EU to retaliate and do the same they do to N-Reg to G-reg. The difference of course being, that the UK as a European, EFTA but non-EU country would have a lot more interest and weight to throw around than San Marino or the Isle of Man and a lot more reason to do so than the USA.

The main question in this scenario however is a different one: If the UK were to leave, what would other countries do? It is no secret that there are dissident countries whose populations are fed up with Brussels to the top of their gag reflex. If the UK were to leave, I’d expect uprisings in several other EU countries demanding the same, resulting in probably a break up of the EU as a whole, resulting in probably 3-4 different power blocks in Europe. I’d bet on one centered around Germany, possibly another centered around France, a third centered in Eastern Europe who would possibly try to re-establish ties to Russia (like Ukraine does right now and like prominent parties in BG, RO and HU are proposing. In short, we’d see a totally different ballgame, but would also harbour opportunities to rallye those leaving into a new, opener and freer alliance under the guidance of the then free British.

Aviation wise, this may have advantages, it also has downsides. If the UK were the only one to leave, I would expect a policy of isolation by the then fully German dominated rump EU, meaning hefty customs, restricted move of people, possibly actions equal to the closing of customs ports and airports like the French are doing currently. From an aviation side, this would mean flying in Europe might become more restricted for G-Reg aircraft and crews. Brits would find themselves excluded from the working place market in the rump-EU, which of course would include pilots and aircrews who today fly all over the place. Equally, the EU might consider re-introducing overflight permits and all sorts of other sanctions.

From an ideological point of view and probably for a long term outlook, the UK leaving and the consequences of that could have a lot of good effects. First of all, it would regain its independence, secondly it may well become a financial superpower if the post EU government play their cards right and 3rd it would send a very brutal signal to Berlin and Brussels that countries WILL NOT take the kind of abuse they now receive from the EU without dire consequences. The danger is, as it has been proven in countless bloody wars in Europe, that Germany and the rump EU would not look at such acts kindly and do their damnest to reverse it.

Frankly, from an aviation point of view, a thoroughly rebuilt and reorganized EASA may be the much better way to go. An EASA which gets rid of the would be dictators, whose rule making is fully subjected to a democratic process and whose member states would insist to rid it of overregulation and turn it into a working and pro-aviation minded organisation.

LSZH, Switzerland

Quote whose rule making is fully subjected to a democratic process

And there’s an even better laugh!

There’s only one thing worse than self-aggrandising politicians and that’s unelected self-aggrandising politicians.

Forever learning
EGTB
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