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Garmin handheld aviation GPS business - the end?

There may be some info deep within this thread or you can search for the word airprint.

I am not up to date on this because I never managed to get “anything PDF” working properly on our Ipad2 (various issues with marginal app support, fonts, document scaling, app and IOS updates usually breaking it, etc) but I recall that Apple’s long-term policy was to prevent printing to PDF for ideological reasons. At one stage some people produced print drivers which generated PDFs and they got kicked out of the app shop. But that was a while ago. After Jobs went, some things changed.

With a lot of IOS products, especially Jepp (and they do it apparently intentionally, to limit piracy), the only easy way is to screenshot and then somehow print off the Camera Roll. Obviously that is not optimal for various reasons…

More here

Also I think you may be over-estimating the size of the “team” in some of these companies

Garmin Pilot review

Please let’s not descend this thread into yet another “paper is so yesterday” thread. Everybody knows what year it is but people make their own choices as to their workflow. Also there is a huge reason for PDFs which is right-on – emailing them to somebody.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

EuroFlyer wrote:

I normally use skydemon as well. However, I am currently a bit upset

You don’t say!

nor does Skydemon allow me to file the log as a pdf to print it out i.e. from Adobe.

Ah, but it does… Route > Create Briefing Pack. Tick whichever boxes you want, then hit create. You are then presented with a PDF which you can save, print, open in another app, e-mail (or do anything you can normally do with a PDF).

So, answer machine. I mean, WTF ????

Did you leave a message? Or e-mail? I bet if you had done either, you would have had a response by now.

(Jepp/Garmin) To whom I will switch now.

If you think you’ll get better service from those huge companies, you’re in for a shock!

Jeppesen has a 24 hour help line and the people there are generally very good. Their accounting system on the other hand……

Last Edited by Peter_Mundy at 01 Jul 11:42
EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

Peter_Mundy wrote:

Jeppesen has a 24 hour help line and the people there are generally very good.

The people might be good but the service ends up rubbish. Several weeks before a particular trip I tried to order a trip kit and a temporary subscription update to display charts for an extended region on the MFD.

The trip was over before Jeppesen sorted it out. We annually spend 5 digit numbers with Jeppesen, so I doubt one pilot with a subscription will get better support.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

They sent me a message, so I could solve the web problem. I’ll try the briefing pack next time – thank you, didn’t know that ;)

Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

Neil wrote:

The trip was over before Jeppesen sorted it out. We annually spend 5 digit numbers with Jeppesen, so I doubt one pilot with a subscription will get better support.

Did you speak with Jepp UK or USA? The American side is very good. The UK/Germany useless. If you need help call after the Europeans have gone home.

EGTK Oxford

Your Jeppesen dealer is also there to help. Dealing direct cuts out that line of help.

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

I’m not a veteran by any means and I don’t fly IFR, so take this with a pinch of VFR salt.

I’ve used a number of Garmin systems, a Jepp, and SkyDemon.
SkyDemon is so far ahead in the value chart it is ridiculous. The only time I wince using it is when I need to know the approach patterns for far-flung airfields, or when I wish an autopilot was hooked up to SD… (someday)

Garmin’s 696 was a complete shock as to how useless it was… compared to SD, there is no discussion imo.
The 796 has a bit more to offer, and isn’t bad, but with inflight weather updates on SD, I don’t know why I would pay 400-500 a year for the Garmin updates… Just brutal.
I’d never spend the money for the “charts” upgrade either… worthless. Just fly with a tablet and a 3G connection and use SkyNav or something…!
The well-placed heads-up info on the Garmins is great. Having the block values for ETE, ETA, GS, etc, is fantastic. Simple stuff, but simplicity is beautiful when everything else gets crazy…

The seamlessness of using the same device to communicate, check weather, flight plan, file flight plans, navigate, keep flight logs and the fact that it is something I carry everywhere anyway makes this a hands down contest.

For Glass Panels, I think it is a little different, as handling comms, nav and EMS is better as a fully integrated system. So it is clear that external systems are done, but Glass is here to stay.

Throwing a little bit of future tech out here, wouldn’t it be cool to have Augmented Reality so when you look out you actually see the info for features on the ground? This has to be coming next, as it is already possible, and hitting the pedestrian and some industrial markets. Just throw on some glasses (Magic Leap anyone?) and everything you need is right in front of you, but you still see the real world, with no interference.

That would (will) be an awesome product, and if (when) someone is developing that, please let me know, I’m absolutely passionate about it! We just need to sign an agreement with Magic Leap, or one of the others leading this AR foray and start developing the app for it…

Last Edited by AF at 02 Jul 18:57

AF wrote:

inflight weather updates on SD

What datalink are you using? AFAIK it’s not allowed to transmit on the frequencies used by mobile phones while airborne which rules out the most convenient solution (a workaround is to have a picocell on board, AIUI phone should then adjust it’s output power and it won’t threaten to disrupt the terrestrial network anymore, but that still requires some link with the ground).

It does work, however, and the really big change has been 4G. Not so much because you can pick it up more often than 3G or GPRS (much of the countryside has barely 3G never mind 4G) and also not because it is faster, but because the connection gets established about 10x faster than with 3G, so instead of DHCP taking say 10 secs it takes 1 second, so even brief moments of connectivity can be exploited.

I routinely find that I can send photos via whatsapp or telegram up to say 5000ft in the UK. Belgium is totally devoid of any connectivity IME, then Germany is OK again. Above 5000ft or so it gets much more random and really cannot be relied on at all.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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