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D-ESPJ TB20 crash near Annecy, France, 25/11/2016

That report is as expected from the BEA. No analysis of why the flight was at such an impossibly low level.

Do I read it correctly that they did not find one wing, or any charts?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Any such analysis would be pure speculation. To me it sounds like you are trying to find support for your own theory. Any ATSB’s job is to stick to facts. I hope the British one would have handled it the same way.

Yes there was one wing missing.

This is a simple case of someone who tried to get into an airport VFR in mountainous terrain in very marginal weather and did not manage to beat the odds. He failed to follow the route that was suggested to him (approach at Chambery and NE through the valley). He had an appointment he was late for. And no matter how you look at it you will not find anything more than what the BEA has found.

Even people you know very well will occasionally make decisions that will surprise you. How many mass murderers had relatives and friends who thought they would never do that?

This is a reminder to all that flying in mountainous terrain, below the surrounding crests, in marginal weather is dangerous.

Last Edited by Aviathor at 26 Oct 06:07
LFPT, LFPN

Any such analysis would be pure speculation

So is most of the content of GA accident reports. No CVR, no FDR, etc.

Here, it might lead to the “6500” on the SIA chart, which can’t be allowed since that VFR chart is not supposed to be used as a VFR chart despite being sold in the VFR Guide by the official government pilot shop

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Do I read it correctly that they did not find … any charts?

They found a bunch of 1/500000 charts on board, but none of the area of the crash. AirNavPro was apparently running in the background on the iPad but there was no track of the accident flight and the display was centered on the Dortmund airport. They were not able to determine why there was no track.

VFRiChart was open and centered on Warsaw airport. Goodreader displayed the ILS approach plate for Chambéry.

At the time of the accident the aircraft was climbing at 1000 fpm parallel to a ridge and then suddenly turned towards that ridge into which it crashed. So the occupants were clearly very aware they were in a tight spot. According to the last radar return they had reached 6720’ prior to the crash. There is no indication they thought they were safe at that altitude.

LFPT, LFPN

I spoke to the investigation lead of the BEA at the time in great detail and I was impressed with his knowledge (GA pilot with a lot of experience) and professional attitude. They followed quite a few leads, looked how he performed previous flights, etc. The conclusion came rather quickly: a capable and experienced pilot with good equipment made a stupid and fatal mistake. Not much to learn from this accident report.

achimha wrote:

I spoke to the investigation lead of the BEA at the time in great detail

The BEA contacted you because the pilot used Autorouter for filing?

Last Edited by Aviathor at 26 Oct 07:21
LFPT, LFPN

Yes. They were very diligent. A logbook post 2012 was not found so they tried to reconstruct his flying activities and general approach towards flying.

Peter wrote:

Here, it might lead to the “6500” on the SIA chart, which can’t be allowed since that VFR chart is not supposed to be used as a VFR chart despite being sold in the VFR Guide by the official government pilot shop

Please don’t quote me wrong.
When I wrote :


But this 1/1 000 000 chart is not sold as a VFR only chart.

I clearly meant that this chart is not limited to VFR. It obviously can be used for IFR or VFR if it fits your needs.
There is no official VFR / IFR chart you must have. You can use any charts you want under Part-NCO and there is no need for any approval !

Anyway this doesn’t even matter has this 1/1 000 000 chart doesn’t even appear in the list of equipment found in the wreckage.

Last Edited by Guillaume at 26 Oct 09:40

Interesting tidbit out of the french report:

Une photo prise lors du vol de l’accident, montre que le pilote propriétaire
de l’avion était en place droite et que le passager était en place gauche.

So the owner was seated on the right while the passenger sat on the left. Therefore the passenger was probably pilot flying.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I would double check the picture has not been flipped. I used to have a phone which did that if you used the front camera I have seen the pic the report refers to and it was supplied to the family in paper form, not as the original jpeg. However the TB20 has no POH restriction on where the PIC may sit. We had a thread on this topic here and Germany may have a reg about it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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