Also, it seems that economists are debating how much the Marshall plan actually helped the economical recovery. According to Wikipedia there was no correlation between the amount of aid a particular country got and its speed of recovery. E.g. West Germany got less than haft the aid that the UK got but recovered faster even though its infrastructure was more badly damaged after the war.
Wikipedia is always fun to read 
Some of the contributions are from readily obvious quarters.
Germany was probably judged to be better organised, which was kind of obvious As Graham says, the UK probably wasted a lot of it as it became a socialist state post-WW2. That said, I can’t readily find a record of the MP calculation.
Graham wrote:
They way I’ve always understood it is:1. The champagne socialist espouses views of social equality which, if implemented, would make them personally much poorer than they are now
2. There is nothing to stop you giving away your wealth until you reach that point, if that’s how you think the world should be
3. Yet here you are swilling champagne
It’s about hypocrisy, not the right to an opinion.
Whether this is hypocrisy or not depends on whether #1 is sincere or just lip service. The thing with #2 is that it won’t matter one iota for the big picture what you yourself do in this respect (unless you’re Bill Gates or Elon Musk). You need to change the system and it’s better your spend you means doing that.
Airborne_Again wrote:
You need to change the system and it’s better your spend you means doing that.
I think the charge is also that they don’t spend their means doing that, they just enjoy their relatively privileged position whilst spouting off about equality.
Libertarians don’t even recognize the existence of a social system. System equals bad in their view. It’s the quintessential “if everyone was like me” philosophy.
@Silvaire I take it you only watch Fox News
I don’t watch any news a great deal and have learned over the last few years that the press has become a political tool of its activist owners, not independent. Like anybody with a brain and personal discipline I’ve learned to read everything they say with the understanding that the primary objective is nowadays to promote their specific agenda. The European press (BBC and DW being two examples) is hopelessly biased as much as the US press, although it can be smoother in its presentation because in Europe a marketplace of ideas does not really exist, so the consensus view they’ve created sees little competition. By my observation the concept of competing ideas is shocking to many Europeans.
I prefer to travel and see reality for myself when possible.
Libertarians don’t even recognize the existence of a social system.
And Socialists don’t understand that a social system and a feeling of being part of something greater than themselves does not require government control over individual lives and works better without it. Socialism is the ultimate abrogation of personal responsibility.
LeSving wrote:
Libertarians don’t even recognize the existence of a social system. System equals bad in their view. It’s the quintessential “if everyone was like me” philosophy.
Just as there are degrees of socialism, there are degrees of libertarianism.
“If everyone was like me” misses the point in a spectacular fashion. The true libertarian doesn’t care what others are like, that’s their concern.
What about the mess with breaching the capitol? Isn’t main problem about T that he is a fascist?
@Snoopy, sorry forgot to answer this one first.
I don’t think the facts support Donald Trump having anything substantial to do with that organizing or implementing that demonstration. Nancy Pelosi and her cohorts fabricated that accusation as a politician attack, they are really not good people, and their protege (the current California governor, Gavin Newsom) is a deeply unappetizing and undemocratic character too.
I’m puzzled by the use of the word “fascist” here. Trump is an American politician with a brash manner and an interest in reducing bureaucratic rot in government. That’s not being a fascist.
I don’t think the facts support Donald Trump having anything substantial to do with that organizing or implementing that demonstration.
Really? Weren’t those people hardcore trump supporters?
You asked about breaching the capitol building, and no I don’t think President Trump had anything to do with that beyond what would be normal practice by any politician. What’s being portrayed is that he led people into doing something illegal, and while I’m not a huge fan of his boisterous manner I don’t buy that accusation. I do know that his political opponents are shockingly ruthless ideologues who genuinely believe the unquestioned achievement of their worldview, with them in control hopefully forever, justifies the means.
Graham wrote:
The true libertarian doesn’t care what others are like, that’s their concern.
In the same manner we shouldn’t care about what Putin and his gang are like or what they do? The world doesn’t work like that, human nature simply isn’t nice enough to allow that kind of thinking. The only way this is going to work is if everybody thinks like you, in the same libertarian fashion. A nice thought, but very much utopian.
Silvaire wrote:
And Socialists don’t understand that a social system and a feeling of being part of something greater than themselves does not require government control over individual lives and works better without it.
It requires some control no matter what. Traditionally it has been brainwashing by religion. I’m not a socialist by the way, and it’s not fully clear to me what you mean by socialism
