Singapore stands as a fantastic example of tolerance to individual freedoms WITHIN the law and as a fantastic deterrent to law breakers. Result is a very safe and wonderful place to live without fear of crime. Perhaps we should emulate some of what has been achieved there.
Fenland_Flyer wrote:
Singapore stands as a fantastic example of tolerance to individual freedoms WITHIN the law
I have not been but know people who lived and worked there. Other than the oppressive humidity, they spoke highly of it.
I think we need something in the UK, not going to get it, but we need it. I do not have any answer to the decline, if it in fact exists. Standards, manners morals, or is it media contortion? Difficult to tell.
My view is that there is an angst, an anger, a definite sense of waste. Business collapsing around us, poverty on the rise, a political theatre ground, lawlessness, drugs, religious intolerance, etc. Maybe it has always been like this, social media just brings it closer. I lived through the seventies and thought it could not get any worse…..
Maybe it has always been like this, social media just brings it closer. I lived through the seventies and thought it could not get any worse…..
I think it is basically thus. Social media makes everything more visible. It also what some would call “underprivileged” a lot more ability to be noticed, because they have their £50/month Iphones and post all over facebook.
We could all tell stories and the more ancient we are the more so. In the 1980s I often worked evenings in the factory, writing software. I could hear the kids from the adjoining council estate vandalising the other factory units. Once I crept out of the back door and surprised them, and chased them all the way to their home. Then called the police, who – as today – were not interested, saying, for the particular kid, that his dad is in jail, his mum is a prostitute, and he just runs around out of control. Not sure I would chase them today though because they would be carrying knives… Take a walk around say Harlow in Essex (I was there the other day) and the “disintegration of society” is there for all to see – except for the Iphones it is just like the 1980s.
Of course there have been many changes and new challenges but the basics have not changed. Social media has created new challenges though, with more copycat crimes, kids wanting to be like some dodgy role model, etc.
This is everywhere, not just the UK. The UK actually does relatively well on race relations (due to long-running initiatives like community policing) compared to some of its neighbours.
Not sure Singapore is a good comparison, because the police in those places have a lot more latitude to extract confessions from the usual suspects, etc, etc… all the “great stuff” they used to do in the UK but can’t anymore 
There is a tradeoff between effective law enforcement and human rights. You can’t have both. It is even possible that in Singapore they can totally eliminate the really problematic people – as is normal in say Russia and was normal behind the Iron Curtain (where I come from). You still get crime but a lot less of it.
Timothy wrote:
Zionist, in Labour Party use, means “Jewish” and is generally a term of disparagement, used to imply that Jewish people are in a conspiracy to undermine society.
Is that a specific British usage? In Sweden the use of the word would only refer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and not to any purported jewish conspiracy “at home”.
It varies. It was a Nazi staple, which is what makes it so toxic now.
Just like in Islam, there is a massive range of culture, attitudes, positions and beliefs across Judaism.
One thing that differentiates Jews from many other religions and cultures is that there is a genetic element, so, however much an individual might reject the religion and culture, and abhor the behaviour of the State of Israel, they are lumbered with “being Jewish”. That was enough to get gassed not so long ago, and you could not escape by denying Judaism, you were Jewish and therefore had to die a horrible death.
That burden is huge and one of the reasons that people and organisations have to tread even more carefully when it comes to antisemitism than around other prejudices. Anti-Zionism and antisemitism are simply not differentiated, and one sees, in the Labour Party, sentiment against Israel and sentiment against “Jewish bankers” all being rolled up together.
But, having said that, much the same can be said of Caribbean and Afro-Americans, who bear the history of slavery and cannot shed their skin.
Racism in all its forms, whether against Jews, Afro-Caribbeans, Muslims or Travellers is a terrible cancer, and needs to be fought as soon as the first signs are seen.
Did Zionism feature strongly in Nazi propogana? I ask the question as my understanding was that prior to the holocaust, Zionism was something of a minority interest for Jews in Europe. I’m aware that the Nazis were allies with the Grand Mufti of Palestine, but also for a while entertained the idea of creating a Jewish colony – though I doubt it would have been a pleasant place to live.
Zionism as an idealistic concept and Zionism as an analogue for Judaism are, of course, completely different things, but they are conflated by antisemites of all hues, including, yes, the Nazis.
Fenland_Flyer wrote:
Result is a very safe and wonderful place to live without fear of crime.
Singapore has been described by many as a police state with rather drastic penal law which includes caning and the death penalty as well as rather unpleasant jails. You can get nicked for spitting on the floor. Clearly, there are people who love this kind of order but whether we want something like this where we live. I regularly read comments from people who would like to bring back the guilloutine for stuff like parking on a double yellow line but then are shouting when they get a speeding ticket.
Mooney_Driver if you have not experienced Singapore then I urge you to give it a try, afterwards you may be less tolerant of law breakers when you experience an almost crime free place to live. It is NOT a totalitarian state like some of the old eastern block countries used to be, but a warm, friendly and safe place to live. Yes they still have the death penalty and prescibed punishments with no fancy expensive lawyers getting guilty people off which seems to suit the people who live there. It is also a state where people live in harmony regardless of race colour or creed.
Fenland_Flyer wrote:
Yes they still have the death penalty and prescibed punishments with no fancy expensive lawyers getting guilty people off
If you ever end up facing the death penalty without the benefit of a fancy lawyer to help you, it might give you pause for thought.
You might find “The Secret Barrister” a refreshing and enlightening read.
