Peter 100% with you on that but whilst youre at it perhaps you could also stop this:-
“Then you got the vaccine nationalism stuff, and Europe definitely doesn’t need any more nationalism” Its getting very tedious.
Emir wrote:
One’s personal experience doesn’t have any significance in evaluating effectiveness of certain drug including vaccines.
No, but the same is experienced by everyone. Either a vaccine works, or it doesn’t. More than 95% effectiveness was the gospel. Then it was, well yes, but a second dose is required. Then it was well yes, but a third dose, preferably from another brand is required. Now it is: a “booster shot” every 2-4 months will give you some level of protection. This isn’t a vaccine, this is a regular drug that may or may not work depending on the strain you are infected with.
By everyone I mean everyone who gets covid. You can get it several times, vaccine or no vaccine, it doesn’t seem to matter. The symptoms are the same, like a flu. I haven’t seen any convincing data that the vaccines help with the symptoms. What has happened is the virus has developed into less aggressive but more contagious strands. That data is undisputable. Everyone who gets it later rather than sooner will get a less aggressive strand with milder symptoms, but lots of other factors are involved here.
The main reason the health authorities lifted all covid measures was the development into less aggressive strands (which by the way was predicted from the start by every virologist as the only course this would take), not the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the vaccines. The virus (and covid) no longer had the punch to be recognized as a serious threat to each individual or the society as a whole.
Today it is at the same level as a normal flu. Not exactly helpful for me, sitting here with fever, sneezing and coughing 
Peter wrote:
Please, let’s not start this again. The previous CV19 thread was locked at 10000 posts. It is highly divisive
OK, no problems. I just want to say that everything becomes what we make them to be. When everybody uses out of context trivialities to score some irrelevant “points”, that’s what the discussion ends up in.
LeSving wrote:
I haven’t seen any convincing data that the vaccines help with the symptoms.
Then I suggest you look at the data from the large phase III trials that were conducted prior to the vaccines being rolled out.
It was always highly likely that effectiveness would wane over time given that it’s a virus known to mutate. It’s not the same virus anymore.
Here’s my experience to compare to yours – I have doubtless been exposed to the virus many times (through spending time in close proximity to people who had it, including my partner) but have never developed any symptoms nor given a positive test. The vaccines (3x Pfizer, I will not have any more unless some genuinely dangerous variant appears) may, or may not, have something to do with that. For a single individual, there is simply no way to know.
Regardless of what you might think of big pharma, the FDA, EMA and MHRA (the three regulatory bodies that matter in global medicine) are not bent. They simply would not have allowed the use of these vaccines if efficacy had not been demonstrated.
Government over-reactions, egged on by that frighteningly-large proportion of the population that is comforted by close control of absolutely everything, are a different matter.
No, but the same is experienced by everyone. Either a vaccine works, or it doesn’t. More than 95% effectiveness was the gospel. Then it was, well yes, but a second dose is required. Then it was well yes, but a third dose, preferably from another brand is required.
Such expertise really doesn’t deserve any comment it’s just funny.
Peter wrote:
Please, let’s not start this again.
…
For some reason this thread was locked. It is now unlocked.
LeSving wrote:
OK, no problems
It sure is frustrating to see even intelligent people totally failing or refusing to grasp what vaccinations can do and what not.
In the case of Covid its even worse. It has been clear for quite some ti e that the vaccines will not stop infection totally but prevent severe cases and deaths. This they have done,
I am 3 times vaccinated and waiting to get a shot which will also do Omikron. All of us here have had Covid as a 2 day affair. without the vaccination I would probably not be bothering anyone here anymore.
it is horrendous what damage the controversy has done to the established vaccinations as well as the number of general anti vaxxers has exploded. So it is only a question of time until we will see practically erased illnesses come up again. Back to the dark ages of superstition and welcome to the post-factual society
So it is only a question of time until we will see practically erased illnesses come up again. Back to the dark ages of superstition and welcome to the post-factual society.
You’re absolutely right about this and we’ve witnessed this in Croatia in last few years (even pre-Covid) with return of small pox especially in Dalmatia and Dubrovnik region because of high rate of avoiding mandatory vaccination. The saddest example us Dubrovnik – the city that invented quarantine 500 years ago.
Emir wrote:
The saddest example us Dubrovnik – the city that invented quarantine 500 years ago.
That’s overstating it, although it seems that Dubrovnik was the first place that had formalised quarantine procedures in place.
It seems to me that quarantine for the healthy must have been invented elsewhere, and more recently.
“return of small pox”
Did you mean polio? Or monkeypox?
