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A question re the 12 mile territorial limit

It appears that nobody is aware of any angle relating to the 12 mile limit

I would have been surprised if there was one.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think 12nm did come up in some FAA61.75 vs country licence legal opinions by the FAA but that was an opinion to a question not the actual legal view from the court on a case…

I doubt 12nm is rock solid for prosecutions & accidents if you stay within airspace FIR boundaries…and practically even simple things like getting acces to “RT recordings” & “personal phones” tend to require local courts and may go beyond FAA & US Jutice hands

For crash investigation, I am sure BEA & NTSB would have a tough time getting RT radio exchange tapes from NATS/CAA overhead the CIs, you need to take it to UK courts case to get them, this is also the case if you want to challenge an MOR …

Last Edited by Ibra at 05 Nov 08:50
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

The United States are sofar alone in expressly legislating the extension of airspace jurisdiction out to 12 nm, see Presidential Proclamation 5928 as reflected in 14 CFR 187.

Other states rely on international agreements e.g. art. 2 of the 1982 Law of the Sea Convention, and art. 2 of the 1958 Convention on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone, stipulating that coastal states have complete sovereignty over the airspace over their territorial seas (position supported by ICAO as well).

T28
Switzerland

stipulating that coastal states have complete sovereignty over the airspace over their territorial seas

Which means exactly what? Is it a 12nm limit? In general no country claims more than 12nm and outside that it is international waters.

What I am looking for is a reference on how one can get prosecuted for an infringement outside the 12nm but within the country’s FIR.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

In general no country claims more than 12nm and outside that it is international waters

That is my understanding for “military busts”, there is the concept of “international airspace” which is different from “national FIR boundary” or “national controlled airspace”

The Russian Tu-142 and fighters incursions in Scotland & Channel were the UK civilian controlled airspace (airways we call them) as they were escorted by RAF, elsewhere they even flew 10m of pax airliners in Swedish controlled airspace

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/11/world/russia-west/

https://www.europeanleadershipnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Dangerous-Brinkmanship.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace#cite_note-4

Last Edited by Ibra at 05 Nov 12:16
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Which means exactly what? Is it a 12nm limit? In general no country claims more than 12nm and outside that it is international waters.

12NM with the applicable exceptions for straits and archipelagos.

What I am looking for is a reference on how one can get prosecuted for an infringement outside the 12nm but within the country’s FIR.

The high seas are governed by art. 12 of the Chicago Convention that (only) requires abiding by the rules in Annex Two. Enforcement is done by the state in charge of that high seas FIR.

T28
Switzerland

There must be hundreds of years of maritime law case history relating to ships outwith territorial waters. Until recently it was 3 NM.
Aviation generally copies it.
PS. Virtually every rule in British Maritime Law ended with a clause: “Unless necessary to preserve life”, if I remember the simple 1960s texts.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom
37 Posts
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