Peter wrote:
“FIKI” is a US term which maps onto specific (US
This is exactly why I wrote footnote (1). FIKI is absolutely a US term. EASA AFMs do not mention FIKI but have statements like: “not allowed to fly into known and forecast icing” (taken from the DA-42 EASA-AFM). The AFM-supplement of the non-FIKI TKS for the DA-42 explicitly states “this equipment does not change operational limitations”.
Peter wrote:
What matters is the actual equipment fitted and how well it works
if talking about legal flights, what matters is what your afm says…
Ibra wrote:
I did not know you can’t legally fly in 1kft layers these days?
In winter (like today) those layers are almost always in the icing temperature range and therefore they qualify as “forecast icing”. Obviously my statement was a little simplifying – but if you look at the current advice chart, major parts of Europe are actually closed for non fiki flights.
Vref wrote:
So rare I used TKS on several stretches since I have it installed it almost in 40% of the planned long trips
On 40% of your flights you encountered ice that was not forecast and not to be expected before you actually got it? I can’t believe that!
Vref wrote:
.albeit to keep my track and altitude.
It is not allowed to consciously fly into icing or areas where icing is forecast if your afm does forbid that. That is exactly what I meant by the elephant in the room.
TKS technically is only for situations where you are completely surprised by the ice and there is no option at all to avoid it by flying around or landing before you enter the cloud.
major parts of Europe are actually closed for non fiki flights.
?? That makes no sense to me.
FIKI relates to US wx services.
TKS technically is only for situations where you are completely surprised by the ice and there is no option at all to avoid it by flying around or landing before you enter the cloud.
?? Definitely disagree.
Glad I have it…less stress peace of mind…
Agreed – me too. Mine does get used, and it has been used spectacularly at times.
Peter wrote:
FIKI relates to US wx services.
Happy to repeat it: The term “FIKI” yes. But EASA AFMs also contain phrases like “not allowed to fly into known and forecast icing” without referring to it as FIKI.
Therefore if you take a typical weather like today, all such planes can practically not fly very high as there is icing forecast:
In winter (like today) those layers are almost always in the icing temperature range and therefore they qualify as “forecast icing”
I don’t think ice has ever existed outside “frontal clouds”, ok let’s ignore the time gap between these two screenshots, one showing fronts and one showing your icing forecast, can you point where do you see “ice forecasted”?
Personally, I would expect a cruise bellow freezing level in the red front over UK or Roumania even in FIKI to be a suicide otherwise the rest is perfectly flyable “no ice is forecasted”, maybe some snow here and there 
Ibra wrote:
Can you point where do you see ice forecasted over Germany?
The lower picture is from advice – everywhere where you see green, ice is forecast between the levels given by the numbers…
Ibra wrote:
I don’t think ice has ever existed outside “frontal clouds”,
I very often experience Ice outside frontal clouds. These days even far away from fronts I almost always pick up some ice when climbing/diving through the Stratus layer. As expected by the forecast…
An interesting hierarchy of needs, and not sure if it lends itself to a poll chart.
Have flown TKS (DA42), pneumatic boots in NA, TC and Turboprop all approved into moderate icing. With the exception of the turboprop with the ability to punch through at 2,000 fpm plus up to FL280, the de ice/anti ice systems on the piston equipment would struggle in moderate icing and I would regard it as a get out of trouble card, not a system that would let me risk shift and despatch into run of the mill northern European winter icing.
Colleagues have suffered tailplane stalls in well maintained TC FIKI aircraft.
My SOP in piston is that freezing level has to be well above MEA/MSA (in effect reducing ops in winter months defined generously). The Ernie Gann/Beech 18 night freight sectors where piston equipment really flew in icing were relatively short, around 75-200nm. Being caught in the mid levels on a long sector over terrain, and having to descend through ice, being vectored around, not using flaps to avoid a tailplane stall, and then parking to see chunks of ice plopping off (some the size of rugby balls) on a well proven FIKI piston twin is a Damascene moment :)
Basically you get ice behind the boots or the TKS can’t cope with the supercooled airframe, usually rendering the ailerons contaminated on the DA42 (nice). This obviously not in severe icing freezing, convective or nimbostratus, but run of the mill moderate icing in the mid levels.
On the hierarchy of needs nothing is a replacement for displacement, so get a lb/hp below 10lbs/hp, then a heated propeller, TC/boots/TKS further down the line. Thinking you can fly above it in a TC just means you have a bigger layer of icing to descend through.
Malibuflyer wrote:
TKS technically is only for situations where you are completely surprised by the ice and there is no option at all to avoid it by flying around or landing before you enter the cloud.
What is your source for that statement?
I don’t know about Peter’s retrofit, but TB20s with factory-installed TKS are allowed to fly into known and forecast icing conditions according to their POH.
@RobertL18C, out of curiosity, why do you consider the boots as an underperforming system?
Some large turbo-prop commuters use those for flight in really bad weather…
@arj1 they do, and turboprop airlines fly in much worse conditions than the typical turboprop corporate, a Dash-8 or ATR will normally be found around FL160 to FL200, while the corporate aircraft will be above FL240.
The airliner or cargo will have a lot of excess power available (assuming all engines) which helps. While icing is no longer cited as a prime factor on Colgan, a quick search on Part 135 Turboprop (including Caravan) comes up with 30 accidents, a significant proportion involving fatalities.
While ice bridging on pneumatic boots is no longer a factor with modern boots, ice can still form behind the boots. Some older thicker airfoils might wear this, but typically more modern airfoils are not so forgiving.
I think you depicted the composite layer of ADWICE I prefer to select the various altitudes and times which show often a different picture… to compare apples with apples..
. ADWICE is a good indicator but often far from what I experienced in reality good and bad… Winter decisions fly or not fly are easy, I find the months march april far more difficult to assess east west the freezing levels often look like a ski slope….
