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PPL FI without CPL theory

I’m a bit (a little more than one bit) confused as well. We have:

  • CRI: CRI course + ? : can do CRI stuff
  • FI : FI course? : can teach LAPL ?
  • FI + TK exam : FI course + TK exams (only) : can teach LAPL + PPL?
  • FI + CPL : can teach LAPL + PPL ?
  • FI + ATPL (exam?): can teach ??

What is needed to teach LAPL and what is needed to teach PPL ? What does it take in terms of practical and theoretical instructions. Is the FI course the same, is it only practical flying? is there an “upgrade” path from CRI? Can some stuff be done by a CRI that an FI cannot?

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

PPL + FI course = teach LAPL
PPL + FI course + CPL TK exams = teach PPL
CPL + FI course + CPL TK = teach CPL (once have enough instructional hours)

FI course is the same in all cases. CRI course just gives you teaching and learning module exemption in FI Course (25 hrs ground school)

Now retired from forums best wishes

FI + ATPL (exam?): can teach ??

Probably, can teach PPL and CPL. In Europe there is no ATPL; it is something you get once you have logged 500hrs in a multi pilot cockpit. The FAA “ATP” is an FAA-only thing, in terms of a license which you can obtain via training. The only way to get a Euro ATPL via a training route (no airline position) is by logging 500hrs in a full motion sim

Balliol, do you perhaps mean

CPL + FI course + full CPL = teach CPL (once have enough instructional hours)

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Balliol wrote:

PPL + FI course = teach LAPL
PPL + FI course + CPL TK exams = teach PPL

What does the CPL TK give that is necessary for teaching the PPL, but not the LAPL? Or is it just added as an extra hoop to jump through?

Andreas IOM

Peter wrote:

In Europe there is no ATPL; it is something you get once you have logged 500hrs in a multi pilot cockpit

Licenses issued by UK CAA, show NP, PP, CP, AT before the CAA ref number and after FCL.GBP.xxx, so you do get an “ATPL paper”

Last Edited by Ibra at 18 Nov 15:12
ESSEX, United Kingdom

Yes indeed; I was just (badly) making the point that the only “ATPL” you are likely to find is an airline pilot, often retired.

If you just want to instruct you cannot just get the PPL CPL ATPL. You can do that in the US (although for the ME ATP – yes, there is a single engine ATP – that has been tightened up massively).

What does the CPL TK give that is necessary for teaching the PPL, but not the LAPL? Or is it just added as an extra hoop to jump through?

EASA proposed (I was at one conference) that a PPL+FI could teach the PPL, but, allegedly, EASA had to backtrack in the face of massive under the table training industry protests. They didn’t want a flood of “cheap” PPL+FI people undermining their business. The 13 CPL exams keep all but the most keen out of the FI scene. And almost nobody is doing the LAPL.

BTW a PPL+FI can also teach the NPPL, AIUI. That is much more useful than the LAPL, for UK pilots, due to the medical self dec route.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

In Europe there is no ATPL;

You know there is, so what are you really mean?

it is something you get once you have logged 500hrs in a multi pilot cockpit. The FAA “ATP” is an FAA-only thing, in terms of a license which you can obtain via training. The only way to get a Euro ATPL via a training route (no airline position) is by logging 500hrs in a full motion sim

What I can see from a quick look at FCL.510.A and FAR §61, FAA and EASA requirements for the ATPL are very similar.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 18 Nov 20:12
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

alioth wrote:

What does the CPL TK give that is necessary for teaching the PPL, but not the LAPL? Or is it just added as an extra hoop to jump through?

To me, it seems that the general ideas behind the system of instructor ratings are

a) you cannot instruct for a License higher (i.e. granting more privileges) than the one you hold
b) the instructor is expected to have TK one Level up from what he’s instructing for.

Hence PPL TK => instruction for LAPL, CPL TK => instruction for PPL, and “CPL with experience” => instruction for CPL.

AFAIK, there is no “instruction for an ATPL”, because People do the ATPL TK but can only acquire a “CPL/IR with ATPL credit” (a.k.a frozen ATPL) until they accumulate enough multi-crew hours to do an upgrade, usually if and when their employer decides they are ready for command, not neccesairily upon reaching the required hours.

EDXN, Germany

PPL + FI course+CRI = teach LAPL/NPPL and in fact pretty much everything apart from the PPL

And most FI’s can apply for a CRI on completion of their FI course if they meet the experince requirements for CRI issue

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