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CRI and instructing at night

Balliol wrote:

It baffles me how people can think someone with no training for, or demonstration of competence in, is a good person to train night flying?

That was never the question — rather if a CRI can do “CRI stuff”, like revalidating a class rating, at night when both the CRI and the other pilot already have night ratings.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

It is irrelevant that the student has a night rating. The CRI is PIC and exercising his instructional privileges for the whole flight. The student is PU/T and receiving instruction. If it was ‘revalidating a class rating’ in night conditions that would require Ex 20 – Night Flying – which a CRI cannot instruct.

I’m not trying to be difficult – this is just all how it has been explained to me as an FIC Instructor and Examiner. I would strongly recommend any CRIs thinking of trying to do CRI stuff at Night get written confirmation from the CAA and their insurer.

Now retired from forums best wishes

Balliol it would be helpful to get the source nailed down, ‘has been explained’ seems slightly vague.

I would also add that the sign off for the night restriction to be removed is quite minimal, and is usually done in a club 152/PA28. Not sure how useful in the context of HPA/complex aircraft.

I will check with some TRE colleagues if they ever bothered lifting the restriction, and whether their airline SOP only allows re validation of a TR/Line check during daylight hours only.

Enstone (EGTN), Oxford (EGTK)

Balliol wrote:

I’m not trying to be difficult – this is just all how it has been explained to me as an FIC Instructor and Examiner. I would strongly recommend any CRIs thinking of trying to do CRI stuff at Night get written confirmation from the CAA and their insurer.

@Balliol, do you consider that a CRI can instruct for differences training or not?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Yes absolutely, it is within the scope of the class rating exercises

Now retired from forums best wishes

Balliol wrote:

Yes absolutely, it is within the scope of the class rating exercises

I have never received instruction on any of the Differences training when I did my rating, but yet I can teach someone about retractable gear / tailwheel / Complex / Single lever / EFIS (to people who have never used them).

How is teaching EFIS to a night rated pilot (incidentally, at night) fundamentally more risky than teaching someone to fly in a Pitts special? In the latter case, I wouldn’t have received specific instruction on how to teach either.

Last Edited by Noe at 30 Nov 10:31

Balliol wrote:

If it was ‘revalidating a class rating’ in night conditions that would require Ex 20 – Night Flying – which a CRI cannot instruct.

I’m not trying to be difficult…

Airborne_Again wrote:

@Balliol, do you consider that a CRI can instruct for differences training or not?
Yes absolutely, it is within the scope of the class rating exercises
I’m not trying to be difficult either. I’m just trying to read the same things from the regulations that you say that you do.

I take it you mean that a CRI cannot instruct ex. 20 because there is no night flying in the CRI training course (AMC1 to FCL.930.CRI)? But there is no mention of differences training either!

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 30 Nov 14:58
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

@Noe
I do it the other way around. I f it is not forbidden, then it must be allowed.
Just continue to look at part FCL into the adjacent TRI section. Nothing about night, nothing about IMC. Would you realy believe that the instruction for a type rating has to wait until there is daylight VMC? Just because there is no explicit statement that a TRI may do his work at night or in IMC? This would severely distress the entire business aviation world.
Of course, you must check the documentation of the ATO you instruct for, if applicable. There you may be lucky and find the sought for restriction that limits your training to daylight VMC or a certain cloud base/visibility…

Another scenario to consider:
As a CRI, I do.a lot of club currency check flights – eg when PPL hasn’t flown for a specified period, or if the PPL themselves feels rusty and wants an instructor in the aircraft to impart some guidance, and / or make sure he doesn’t do anything dangerous.

Consider then a PPL, with a current SEP and current night rating, who perhaps hasn’t flown as P1 at night for a few weeks. Just as in the daylight scenario above, this PPL would feel more comfortable doing a night trip with an instructor there as a safety blanket. If no full FI is available, this PPL may simply not have the confidence (at this juncture) to fly at night on his own.

Consider a PPL, with current SEP and night rating, who wants to do a night navigation trip (perhaps circumnavigating the London zone), but again, is not 100% confident, and perhaps is worried about the risk of infringing CAS, and therefore wants some support or refresher training in night navigation.

Consider an Airline Pilot with current ATPL / IR, who is receiving SEP refresher training in preparation for an LPC to regain his SEP. If he wishes, OR, if the (daytime) flight incurs a delay and has to make a return journey partly after dark. Can it continue?

None of these scenarios is “instructing for the issue of a night rating” – so surely they should be permissible for a CRI to do, provided the CRI has a current night rating and is in current night practice?

Lefty
EGLM

1 & 2 – I presume the PPL is PIC so the CRI is just a passenger

3 – no, a CRI does not have the privilege or training to teach Ex 20 night flying

Now retired from forums best wishes
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