then your FPL contains a specified point where you change flightrules from VFR to IFR
The filed FPL is only relevant for lost comms, fuel and alternate planning and ATS planning, since when you have flown to the letter on uncontrolled departures?
Ok let say it’s true, are you saying “theoritically” you can’t depart VFR on I-FPL if no ATC/AFIS in the tower in Germany? and you have to refile Z-FPL to be dwad sure the flight path/rules matches your FPL that would be silly…
I had one V-FPL in the system one that I could not retrieve, activate/close or delete, I am now stuck and grounded forever?
Also to add, the following are not part of ICAO FPL: visual circuit legs, joins, straigh-ins, holds, circling, even IAP (excluding it’s SATR+IAF) and visual manoeuvrings under IFR: CTL, VPT/MVL/MVI…only DCT, SID, STAR+IAF and ATS Airways routes will appear in your FPL (not sure if Free Route Airspace FPL, I have not seen one yet), if your IFR private grass strip is ZZZZ (Little Snoring in UK 
) and you are going in I-FPL, you put DCT and file it’s coordinates in the RMK section
gallois wrote:
It is an interesting debate, much more interesting than Covid.
But mindful of what @Peter wrote earlier and being one of the guilty parties, but very interested in the topic I hope some of you will join me in moving the legal vfr/ifr to another thread.
very good point.
on the other hand it might be usefull and to some people interessted in this to see how discussions of this complex matter developped.
and they show – at least for me – how learning is never a linear prozess but a more or less chaotic trial and error (even in good discourses).
so my point (hopefully on of the last) to the legal question:
in austria we have – as in most european democracies the “principle of hierarchy of standards” that governs all rules of law.
to put it simply (which it is not):
the constitution overrules primary eu law overrules secondary eu law overrules secondary constitutional law
overrules federal law overrules statelaw overrules law of communities.
this is also valid to all sublaws, regulations and other legal rules beeing part of these legal categories.
federal law in austria states clearly (as to the state of my information) : no ifr traffic permittet on an airport that has vfr clearance only.
(but i am still invastigating). hope to get some good answers from people of austrocontrol soon).
so you would have to come up with a law, a regulation or other legal rule beeing part of primary or secondary eu law
to overrule this austrian federal law.
answer to the question wether it might be “somehow legal” to takeoff vfr and then go ifr at some point or something like that: unclear
Are they saying it’s impossible to fly on Z-FPL in Austria?
Maybe it’s “illegal to fly IFR in IMC in Golf” in Austria according to your sources, can you ask them if this is possible or legal?
Maybe it’s “illegal to fly IFR in IMC in Golf” in Austria
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM%3Al14548
Precedence of European law
According to the precedence principle, European law is superior to the national laws of Member States. The precedence principle applies to all European acts with a binding force. Therefore, Member States may not apply a national rule which contradicts to European law
Standardized European Rules of the Air (Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) No 923/2012 is a European regulation laying down the common rules of the air and operational provisions regarding services and procedures in air navigation
information from 4 experienced professional air traffic people, 2 thirty year long austrian airlines pilots, 2 instructors in austria
Why they can’t express these views in CRD document for NCO AWO?
It’s pity that in all we got from Austria was this
“Dear all, Austria offers no comments to this NPA.Best,Tanja Madsen”, you can take that as yes
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/crd_2020-02.pdf
At least DGAC (with caveats & conditions) & Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (clear objection) have expressed their views on AMC1 NCO.OP.115
Austrian Airlines indeed submitted a response. A copy paste (= Hello Vienna, this is Cologne, here is „your“ comment) from Mama Lufthansa‘s text, but nonetheless.
Yes I saw those ones by Austrian Aurlines, but it was LVTO taxi concerns for NCO in big CAT airports, but not much interest from AustroControl on IFR to small NCO airfields?
Are they saying it’s impossible to fly on Z-FPL in Austria?
no. they say it is illegal to take off from a VFR airfield in IMC an fly IFR without a clearance. This is exactly the same i am getting from everyone I hav confronted with the ifR in G story here in Switzerland as well.
The general opinion appears to be that IFR is only legal in D-A-CH if you are under ATC control, have a clearance and follow prescribed routes. Clearly, this is at least partly wrong due to the airspace G provision, but it may well be that via some local rule regarding MRVA e.t.c it is pretty much still the modus vivendi in those countries.
gear was down and flaps still engaged when plan crashed.
no evidence of health issues.
no evidence that autopilot was engaged.
pilot was aware that he was going out 05 (and not 23).
Where does this information come from? If it is any and not again “sources close to the investiation” folks who like 4 minutes of fame?
However, it may well coincide with my hunch that this accident has not much if anything to do with the question about IFRin G airspace but is most probably a pretty straight forward loss of control incident where VFR flying was conducted under IMC conditions.
no. they say it is illegal to take off from a VFR airfield in IMC an fly IFR without a clearance
Can you fly in Golf IMC with clearance in Switzerland? what does the clearance look like?
How do you depart & land in Grenchen? (They have IFR without ATC?) or Sion?
AFAIK, only Zurich & Geneva have ICAO Annex 14 instrument runways with lights & RFFS…
chopper down in eastern austria.
tried to land in fogy condition. happened around 1600 lt.
one person, the pilot, dead.
