Avionics that become completely useless, and database-induced obsolescence

Airborne_Again wrote:

The AIP is not law but information. That particular piece of information has no basis in law and can be disregarded — at least until the end of the Brexit transition period. An EU member country can’t add requirements to EASA regulations and EASA regulations (specifically part-NCO) make clear that for light GA, one COM unit is enough. EASA has gone through the legal basis for that very clearly in this letter to Eurocontrol.

The important conclusion is

When flying in IFR or CAT VFR with no visual landmarks:

• 1 radio is required for CS-23 Class I aeroplane;
• For all the other aircraft category, 2 independent radios are required

Hm. Has anyone tried to bring it to the attention of CAA?

And have you got anything like for a DME?
Is it required in controlled airspace? UK AIP makes it mandatory.

KLX 135 is a VFR GPS, so it’s irrelevant for IFR flying anyway. On the other hand, a maintenance manual is available here – maybe someone can still repair them just like the KX 170s this discussion started from.

arj1 wrote:

And have you got anything like for a DME?
Is it required in controlled airspace? UK AIP makes it mandatory.

It’s the same thing with DME. PBN can be mandated for IFR flying, but not any specific navigation equipment. (Well, possibly in oceanic airspace, but that’s not what we’re talking about.)

For part-NCO ops, a DME is required only if you will fly a procedure that requires a DME.

Airborne_Again wrote:

For part-NCO ops, a DME is required only if you will fly a procedure that requires a DME.

Any quotes from NCO or other EASA documents to confirm this?

arj1 wrote:

Any quotes from NCO or other EASA documents to confirm this?

NCO.IDE.A.195: (relevant parts)

(a) Aeroplanes operated over routes that cannot be navigated by reference to visual landmarks shall be equipped with any navigation equipment necessary to enable them to proceed in accordance with:
(1) the ATS flight plan; if applicable; and
(2) the applicable airspace requirements.
(c) Aeroplanes operated on flights in which it is intended to land in IMC shall be equipped with suitable equipment capable of providing guidance to a point from which a visual landing can be performed. This equipment shall be capable of providing such guidance for each aerodrome at which it is intended to land in IMC and for any designated alternate aerodromes

As regards item (a)(2), countries can’t make airspace requirements at their whim – they has to have a basis in EASA regulations as the letter about dual COM shows. I have never seen or heard of any EASA regulation that would permit countries to require any conventional navigation equipment.

Anecdotally, Sweden used to require both VOR and NDB for IFR. That requirement was removed when part-NCO replaced the national ops rules. I believe that Germany used to require an autopilot for IFR and that requirement was also removed when part-NCO was introduced.

For en-route, the equipment requirement is now in terms of the route navigation accuracy, I think all UK IFR routes now can be flown with an RNAV5 IFR GPS (formerly B-RNAV) or can anyone confirm a standard IFR route or airway that needs more than +/-5nm?

For procedures, yes one need DME/ADF if that is what the IAP says you can’t legally use GPS as substitute, obviously no one will enforce that: you could safely fly an NDB hold on GPS (one should do that even when they have an ADF ) but it will be bloody unsafe to fly GPS distance as DME distance for at least 7 good reasons…

For radios, only one 8.33khz is needed for IFR in non-complex aircrafts under NCO, we keep the 25khz for 121.5 and have extra handheld but some may wish to install other 8.33khz

Airborne_Again wrote:

wait for a search the sky (half an hour)

It’s not supposed to take more than 12.5 minutes, isn’t it…?

12.5 minutes is the time to get the almanac. But:

• Before starting to get it, you need to find a satellite… trying the possibilities… Listen on one frequency, see if you pick up a signal after some time, listen on another one, etc.
• I imagine one cannot take up the 12.5-minutes long almanac message at any point. Whether the “pick up points” are like every second or every 3 minutes, I don’t know.
• After getting the almanac, one still needs to acquire ephemeris data from at least 4 satellites.
• Since the box in a flying plane probably doesn’t have “estimates of the current time within 20 seconds, the current position within 100 kilometers, and its velocity within 25 m/s (50 knot)”, that is not (according to Wikipedia) a standard “normal” first fix search, which probably adds some time…

All these additional times add up, I suppose.

Some above posts belong in another thread… this one is about avionics that have become useless.

The result is that although the GPS still works, you have to set the time, and then wait for a search the sky (half an hour)

That sounds awfully like a backup battery is gone. GPS require some power to store a database of satellites and where to expect them. This massively speeds up acquisition of a fix. If that database is lost it takes ages to get a new fix.

I suspect someone who knows about electronics will fix it without any manual….just open it find a button battery and replace it and all will work again.

I’m no electronics expect, but that failure mode sounds awfully similar to what I’ve seen with other GPS where he battery is gone.

Airborne_Again wrote:

EASA has gone through the legal basis for that very clearly in this letter to Eurocontrol.

Thank you. That is useful.