No, he is in Aschaffenburg!
Ah, my mistake!
Yes, it’s true that the turbo is much more heavy in the nose, but I would not call it “extreme”.
About the payload: Well, the SR22 will always carry 4 people and full fuel, any of them – and easily. A 100 kg overload is (technically) no problem at all. But (before I have to read 100 replies here that tell me what I already know), NO, I do not recommend illegal activties! Just sayin’!
Most airplanes will carry more weight than they are certified to carry, just not legally. My comment on the extreme aspect is when the SR22TN has just two in the front. According to my logbook, I have flown in 52 different makes and models of aircraft and I base my comments on that experience. I only have about a 100 hours in the SR22TN, but found that it is a much more pleasant airplane to fly if their is some weight in the back. I suspect the non Turbo SR22 is a nicer landing airplane, although I don’t have personal experience with it. The limit on the SR22 comes from the weight limit on the ballistic chute and I am sure it would have been easily certified to carry more weight without the BRS restriction.
I picked the airplane up at the factory with a Cirrus training instructor in the right seat. I had to insist on remaining within the legal limits on our trip home as the new owner was the third person. Our legs were just under two hours each. I later obtained the CSIP for the airplane to teach the new owner. The salesman that he bought the airplane through had no problem filling the four seats and filling up with gas. The airplane performed wonderfully with good performance, albeit totally illegal.
Yes, the parachute is one of the reasons for the weight limit. But I personally would not worry about a slight overload. There have been instances where the parachute worked close to 200 KIAS (while the official limit is 133 KIAS). So a 100 lb overload, for example, should be no big deal.
Yes, the SR22 NA is a bit nicer to land, and actually it is a VERY NICE landing airplane, not harder to land than any other single – i would personally say easier to land than most. In the beginning I only had one problem, i did not get it slow soon enough and would enter the traffic too fast. That’s what every pilot will do who flew Warriors and Skyhawks for 20 years like me. The SR22 will just not slow don so easily. You pull the power back to 20 percent and a minute later you’re still at 140 KTAS … My FIRST approach when I brought the plane home from England .. I entered the traffic pattern with 160 KTAS and had to leave it again to slow down :-)
The WORST combination for payload is turbo AND air condition, because the A/C will add another 50 lb to the plane. Mine has A/C – and i loved it this summer. Especially with the kids in the back seat in August it was MUCH LESS stressful than before. They would play with their iPods and it was almost as comfortable as in the car. After 5 months with air condition I wouldn’t want a plane without it anymore, especially if it was a family plane and I’d fly south to the mediterranean. But you lose some payload. My G2 is really heavy compared to Boscomatico’s without A/C.Check the empty weight if this impirtant for you.
Buying an SR22 gives you many options – and basically you will have the same performance for a little over 120.000 Euros for a G1 model with mechanical flight instruments to a + 700.000 Euro G5, and you can even spend more than that. In between these extremes you can find exactly what you need. I would first start with the TURBO – NONTURBO decision. If it’s a turbo then it’s ALWAYS a glass cockpit plane, because the first turbos were introduced in the summer of 2006 with the G2 version. The first ones will be AVIDYNE equipped, later G3s will be Garmin Perspective. That*s another one of the big decisions. While it’s clear that the Perspective cockpit offers a higher level of integration NOT EVERYBODY really likes it better than the older Avidyne Entegra. I think that the ENTEGRA IS MUCH EASIER to learn, and if you have not had a glass cockpit before you will feel like it’s all you will ever need.
The MAIN difference between G2 and G3 is the 90 lb lighter CARBON spar of the G3 and many other small refinements. Higher landig gear for more prop clearance (it did not help the look though), 1 degree more dihedral of the wing which made it possible to elimnate the “bungee” that connects rudder and ailerons (pilots who REGULARY fly both say the G3 flies nicer, but I could not tell when i flew the G3 for one hour). Also all G3s have WAAS navigators. It’s many little details that were improved.
The G2, on the other hand can be found for much less money and it’s really almost as nice, especially when you don’t have a comparison. Alls G2s are nice planes, but if you have the CHOICE I would try to find one after serial number 1663. That’s the point of a big electrical upgrade that eliminated the mechanical engine instruments and, more important, introduced the DAU (data aquisition unit) instead of the older SUI and the Master control unit (new version of that too) moved into the cockpit from the hot engine department. Most specialists say that this was a big and important upgrade. You also get a GLOVEBOX with that upgrade :-))
Especially planes that are converted to the retrofit DFC90 digital autopilot have very similar capabilities as Garmin Perspective versions. The DFC90 will give an older SR22 almost all features the (more integrated) Garmin DFC700 offers including Straight & Level button, IAS mode, Envelope protection, a very good flight director, and a lot more. It will even fly the plane SAFELY with full flaps at low speeds if you have the optional “Flap Wire” installed that communicates the flap setting to the A/P computer. Also don’t forget that a typical Avidyne equipped SR22, even with a DFC90 autopilot is 80 to 100.000 Euros cheaper in MANY cases. The Perspective cockpit is the more modern glass cockpit – but for a normal private pilot the difference is NOT relevant. A nicely equipped Avidyne SR22 with the digital autopilot is really a very comfortable “personal airliner”. I had to steal this term from Mooney :-)
At the moment the late G2s and early G3s are a VERY GOOD deal. For 200.000 to 250.000 Euros (G2) to 330.000 – 350.000 (G3) you can find a very nice SR22 with all factory options like EGPWS, Stormscope, Traffic, Airbags, TKS. Some of those even have air condition, many have semi portable oxygen. That’s still a lot of money, sure, but you have to understand that a very well equipped G2 can have a 2006 list price of over 550.000 Euros, ferry flight and VAT included. And many of these planes have less than 1000 h TT today. Mine (2006, #2206) had 800 h TT.
Look for a “gts” version (which means all options except air condition and oxygen) but actually most other SR22s (non GTS) have the same equipment too because most people would order most of the options., The prices are pretty low at the moment just because there are so many G2s and G3s on the market. The reason is that many Cirrus pilots buy the newest model the moment it is announced, and so the market was flooded the last years. Because of this older SR22s lost some value compared to Bonanzas and Mooneys of the same age – but if you’re in the market for a used Cirrus you’ll like that.
There’s a lot more to say … if you need more information JOIN COPA, or ask!
Let me try to answer the subject of the thread
By getting involved with the maintenance!
Sadly, In Europe there are very few maintenance organisations who can be trusted to do a good job. Some skip important stuff, some do irrelevant and not-needed stuff and obviously charge you for it, some do both.
To a degree, different aircraft types attract different owner “character profiles” and some attract the type who wants to get as little involved as possible. That is OK safety-wise if the company does the job right (even if they overcharge, it is OK safety-wise) but you never know.
When I used a company for maintenance I used to ask them to leave all inspection covers OFF so I could inspect everything with a lamp. Once, they didn’t do that so I asked one of their engineers to accompany me on the first flight after the service. They absolutely refused that offer (their insurance didn’t cover flying as passengers, they said) and got the covers off…
This (warning: rather long) article might give you a taste of what aircraft ownership can involve. Then read this (under Installer Performance) and ask yourself how many owners would have spotted it. Answer: close to zero. Hazard level: probably life threatening (eventually). That was a very big and well known company, too.
So it pays to get involved, get clued-up, and get involved in the maintenance management.
A plane is not a Merc which you can drop off at the dealer with the keys on the seat – much as some manufacturers’ adverts like to suggest. And it never will be – not in our lifetimes. Even a brand new SR22 is a very conventional plane.
(maybe we should open a Cirrus thread and copy my last post there) Sorry for the hijacking :-)
You do not exaggerate. It is really is like that.
My planes were always flown by the mechanic who did the annual and 100 h inspection. I refused to fly it after inspection after i had several bad experiences. I will keep this up, because I think it reduces the risk. With the Cirrus beeing three times as complicated as the Warrior you have to be even more careful.
I think Bosco’s advice at post#3 is very good. No matter what make of aircraft join the owners society, read as much of the historic forum discussions as you can, read the maintenance manual and find a type-knowledgeable mechanic willing to educate you with owner assisted maintenance
Secondly, if you are going to be on the N register, consider hiring these people to manage your maintenance:
They are very highly regarded by the Cirrus community and I use them myself.
I believe they will also manage non-N registered planes…. I have been considering this service (My Mooney is on the N register)….how useful have they been?
I have been a client for just over two years and recommend them strongly. They have a level of knowledge and expertise that almost no private pilot could match and, unless you are exceptionally knowledgeable yourself, will easily save you several times the cost of the service they provide as well as giving you sound technical advice.
The only issue I have is the time difference between the UK and the US where they are based which can cost a bit of time if an issue arises at the wrong time of day.
There are several free articles and webinars on their website which you might like to look at: