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What determines whether an aircraft is IFR certified?

As has been (probably) said in the 50 posts which you didn’t read, you basically need

1. the equipment to keep the plane flying as you want to (blue side up)
2. and the appropriate equipment for navigating along your route (e.g. a GPS must be allowed to be used for IFR navigation and come with an appropriate AFM supplement if you are going to use it for navigation)
3. and an airframe which in its TCDS permits operation under instrument flight rules (or at least doesn’t limit it to VFR).

I am sure nitpickers will soon come out to correct my wording, though, which is fine because we will all get smarter.

Last Edited by Rwy20 at 15 Oct 16:16

Rwy20 wrote:

1. the equipment to keep the plane flying as you want to (blue side up)
2. and the appropriate equipment for navigating along your route (e.g. a GPS must be allowed to be used for IFR navigation and come with an appropriate AFM supplement if you are going to use it for navigation)
3. and an airframe which in its TCDS permits operation under instrument flight rules (or at least doesn’t limit it to VFR).

@Rwy20, of this i’m all aware, and it has all this, the question is what is the difference between a IFR GTN650 and a VFR one!
As i.e. Neal has a DR401 IFR the other question is answered already…. i’m sure it’s only paper…

One difference might be in any required annuciators (lamps with labels on them) and their location in the pilot’s field of view as per the STC. This issue affects every IFR GPS AFAIK.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

luckymaaa wrote:

the question is what is the difference between a IFR GTN650 and a VFR one!

I asked the same question and got one answer here.

But weren’t we rather talking about issue #3 before, i.e. if the airframe itself may be flown IFR? Because this has not changed with Part NCO.

Last Edited by Rwy20 at 15 Oct 17:03

@luckymaaa can you check if the DR401 has the following items:

- pitot heat
- Alternate static
- Alternate Avionic Master

These are mandatory for IFR.

Peter wrote:

We have done this before here many times. Ultimately, if somebody takes a plane away for 2 weeks and flies it for just 4 hours during that time, somebody must pay for that. Heavily….

There is no escape from that basic fact.

Do you really don’t see that there is something in between that and “Clubs generally love renters who fly circuits or VFR pleasure trips of 50-100 NM. They don’t want people who travel, their planes should be at home every evening if possible”?

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 15 Oct 17:28
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

This shows one cannot discuss this with one-liners, without detail. Clearly your club has a detailed policy on this, beyond which they will treat it as somebody taking the p*ss. But the issue may be self-limiting if – like in the UK – almost nobody has been taught how to fly more than 50nm from base A bit like the fair use policy on “unlimited” ADSL.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

luckymaaa wrote:

of this i’m all aware, and it has all this, the question is what is the difference between a IFR GTN650 and a VFR one!
As i.e. Neal has a DR401 IFR the other question is answered already…. i’m sure it’s only paper…

A GTN, or many other products can be installed for VFR usage or IFR usage. For IFR usage typically there are more requirements, such as field of view, additional annunciators, second COM/NAV for some installations, extra HIRF and lightning protection. So while the installations might look similiar their might be difference. Then there is offcourse the AFMS supplement.

Rwy20 wrote:

But weren’t we rather talking about issue #3 before, i.e. if the airframe itself may be flown IFR?

This depends on the equipment, as lenthamen correctly pointed out. Pitot heat and alternate static are certification items, not sure on the secondary avionics switch, this might be a Robin own requirement, which might be pushed by the English 2nd avionics switch requirement. Not sure on it’s current status.

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

luckymaaa wrote:

A limitation placard showing the following text:
“USE OF GPS LIMITED TO VFR”
is displayed next to the GPS.

If the GTN would be installed with the lower VFR requirements, it would require such placard to make you aware that the GPS is limited to VFR only. Else it might not be visible to the pilot to determine if this is IFR or VFR.

Similair issues excist for KX-165 / KX-155 and some other radios where FM immune and non FM immune units look identical. Though the non FM immune unit is VFR only. The pilot can only know this from either placards and/or POH

JP-Avionics
EHMZ

This depends on the equipment, as lenthamen correctly pointed out. Pitot heat and alternate static are certification items, not sure on the secondary avionics switch

But there are things like lightning protection which are not only dependent on the equipment, but rather the airframe itself. So if your AFM states a limitation to VFR, that is not necessarily an equipment issue!?

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