Mountain Flying - Another Preventable Tragic Accident

I would like to add that there are very good mountain instructors in France. Language may be the barrier, but if you can clear that one, then training with one is very worthwhile. Sparky’s book (RIP) is great, but there is no substitute to a few hours in the mountain with a good instructor, even better if you read the book before! A little simulator time is great too.

If you see yourself having to fly near the center of the valley to clear terrain like this pilot saw himself, better stick to the side and turn around while you have a chance! Never let yourself into a valley that you are not extremely sure (very easy to mistake valleys!) that there is descending terrain ahead or you have space to turn around.

I find the comment on turn radius vs airspeed extremely important, especially if cruising or descending (so not relevant to this accident) : our 210 is happiest around 140kias but turn radios in the valley is twice as much as at 100KIAS, something that becomes painfully obvious as you have to increase bank angle and g’s to maintain terrain clearance…in that case, if able, letting yourself climb in the turn to decrease speed and more so turn radius can be a useful trick…again not the problem in the accident case. As soon as turning space is a concern, no matter how small, I aim to slow down to around 100kias and, if descending, I use 10deg flaps (clean stall around 70KIAS).

Additional to the posted comments, I found very relevant the video comment that visually judging your terrain closure rate is close to impossible, which is why I like to slow down when manoeuvring in tight confines in descent or cruise: it increases your margins disproportionately vs the change in speed.

When climbing in the mountains I never let myself deliberately below Vy . In my opinion having to use speeds slower than Vy to manouevre in the climb out of some place is a dangerous proposition to start with.

Peter wrote:

in this video

Beautiful one!

Antonio wrote:

As soon as turning space is a concern, no matter how small, I aim to slow down to around 100kias and, if descending, I use 10deg flaps (clean stall around 70KIAS).

If (and that may be a big IF) you had the energy, i.e. either surplus power or you could descend a bit, would anyone here consider flying a chandelle to get out of a dead-end valley?

@172driver I have not come across any serious instruction suggesting ag pilot turns, wing overs or chandelles. The focus is on controlled, minimum control airspeed modest bank turns that minimise radius. Amy Hoover’s Mountain Canyon and Backcountry flying dwells quite a bit on this. A descending turn back towards descending terrain will also reduce g load and improve the margin of safety above stall speed.

A wing over is actually a basic aerobatic manoeuvre and not something to do without a working physical outside horizon, and a good deal of energy.

A chandelle (did lots of them in the FAA CPL) is done at cruise speed. You can’t do it when already barely moving. At that point your only options probably are

• turn to one side, as close to the terrain as you dare, and then turn the other way, very carefully to not stall it
• trade height for speed, unloading the wings a bit, and then you can pull a tighter turn

The two can be done at the same time.

But if you have no speed left and no height left, you are buggered. In reality, unless you have dropped the ball completely, you should have a bit of speed margin and then #1 may be doable.

Chandelles & Wingovers are indeed the tight way to do 180 while managing speed-height energy efficiently but you need a good visible horizon to draw nice ones, it’s not something you can pull out of the box to get out of canyons when you are close to the ground (aka no visible horizon)

I once did some aerobatics in gliders, where things went very low as it happens when P2 is an aeros champion , the last two figures were the worst loop and wingover I did in my life, you just can’t watch your aispeed and ignore the sight of the ground filling the whole canopy…

In any case you should not be planning to fly where wingover work while a level turn does not but if stuck one indeed need to slow down, stick it to terrain on one side and perform unloaded turn to the other side, the goal is still to manage space and energy of the turn not to make nice aerobatics figures with 45 deg lines

BeechBaby wrote:

I think he planned this flight for last minute photo shoot and it all went horribly wrong

I agree. Slowing down to take pictures, maybe a few selfies, losing SA while doing it. No problem in the flatland, deadly between granite. Having flown in the mountains most of my flying “career”. Towing gliders, often using thermals to get a decent (read positive) climb rate between the mountains, I cannot remember a single moment where I have been confused about distance from mountains or problems due to lack of horizon, except when the landscape is covered in snow. When everything is white,it is difficult.

What I have felt from time to time when flying close to vertical or near vertical surfaces, is sudden dizziness, like the dizziness you get when standing on a cliff with a 2-300 m drop straight down. Dizziness due to height. This has only happened if I were pre occupied with taking pictures typically. Suddenly looking out and the “horizon” has tilted 90 degrees, even though I know this is exactly what I am taking pictures of. It’s not overwhelming, more of a sudden surprise of dizziness from “nowhere”. But it takes several seconds before things get back to normal. During those seconds, I am sure my flying abilities are seriously degraded, maybe to the point of incapable of doing anything but flying straight and level, I don’t know. Concentrating on the flying, being “in touch” with the terrain, no problems whatsoever.

@LeSving, it’s strange you should mention the problems you have encountered when taking pictures. Many professional photographers and cinematographers have an issue of experiencing “no fear” as soon as their eye gets to the camera viewfinder. I once remember walking with a cameraman along a quite wide platform during the construction of a very tall building. The platform was concrete, about the width of a country road, with concrete supports along the middle. There were no railings either side and there was a three hundred foot drop to the concrete footings below.
As we walked along this platform, the cameraman and I both felt that some invisible force was pulling us to the edge, so we made very slow progress clinging to the upright concrete pillars, spaced about 20 ft apart, every time we could. Meanwhile the assistant cameraman, who simply had no fear set up the tripod and the camera at the agreed position, about 2 feet from the platform edge. With some trepidation the cameraman got himself to this position and once his eye was to the viewfinder, all fear disappeared, to such an extent that he started moving, ever closer to the edge and I had to shout a warning from my position, clinging to the nearest concrete pillar. I wonder if the same thing happens with modern cameras with screens instead of viewfinder.