It’s often observed by people that their training (whether PPL, IMC or IR) stopped a long way short of being really useful. It taught the fundamentals, but not enough to empower one to really go places.
I get a lot of stuff through my email from Pilot workshops. It’s not immediately obvious how much of their material is transferable over to Europe and the UK, but I like the approach of giving people a virtual mentor and a shoulder to look over
Has anyone used their material, such as their Real world IFR series ? Thoughts?
I’d also be interested to know if anyone is doing that sort of thing over in the UK/Europe. I know people do flight reports, but if anyone had the time and inclination to video document the pertinent aspects of a flight, which would give real world insights into actually going places, whether that be VFR or IFR, I think it would be of great interest to many.
MoN – the U.S. insurance industry requires time on type with an instructor which if carried out sensibly is a form of line training.
No reason why a self designed form of line training might be useful. Initially exercising IFR privileges on gentle IFR days, ideally flying towards VFR, on a short selection of routes. Again ideally to an airport destination with ILS and radar environment, and building from there.
The insurance companies typically require fifty hours of twin time, and fifty to hundred hours of self designed line training seems a good target to build experience. Having half a dozen routes to learn is also a good approach. Over time the ability to read the weather on the routes will improve, and overall mental capacity, airmanship and situational awareness improves.
This forum has a big library of trip reports, but perhaps what is needed is more of a Richard Collins type discussion of the weather systems during planning, and weather encountered en route. Also aircraft limitations, with perhaps more trip reports where the decision was to not go!
This forum has a big library of trip reports, but perhaps what is needed is more of a Richard Collins type discussion of the weather systems during planning, and weather encountered en route. Also aircraft limitations, with perhaps more trip reports where the decision was to not go!
That is a great topic.
I have often thought that a workshop where you throw in a real A-B route and look at the wx data and discuss how to (or whether to) do it, would be a great way to teach post-PPL expertise.
Some years ago I went to such a workshop. From vague memory it was at an outfit called TAA, and I believe Stickandrudder was there also. It was very good, but one look at the MSLP made it blindingly obvious that the trip would be unflyable in anything less than a T42 tank with a lightning rod on top. Well, maybe not… lots of brave people fly low level, say 1000ft AGL, below CB bases, avoiding the “darker” bits, or the bits which have flashes coming out of the bottom. If your plane doesn’t leak, and you don’t get hit by lightning, and you avoid the heavy showers OR you are sure of the terrain and can instrument fly, it is fairly safe if you are really good. I wouldn’t do it…
So I think one would need to run a number of such workshops.
And, as with all post-PPL training, the take-up is limited, based flying schools don’t like supporting it (because it usurps their instructors’ authority) and arguably those who would benefit the most aren’t going to be interested because they already know it all. One statistic bandied about in the UK CAA Safety Seminars (I went to a couple c. 2003) was that those attending one were about 10x less likely to crash, which was daft if you saw the patronising and banal content (they have since improved, I am told) and was obviously due to those attending being self-selected for a more risk-averse personality. About half the audience queued up to get their logbooks stamped that they attended the seminar!
a workshop where you throw in a real A-B route and look at the wx data and discuss how to (or whether to) do it
I am certainly a potential buyer
About half the audience queued up to get their logbooks stamped that they attended the seminar!
Why? Hoping for reduced insurance rates, perhaps? I mean, what other use could such a stamp ever be?
I mean, what other use could such a stamp ever be?
It’s completely worthless for any real purpose.
It’s like you writing in your logbook that you flew as a passenger on Easyjet. 100% legal, though!
Jan/Peter the last safety evening I attended was hosted by a friendly, authoritative gentlemen with a SAR background if I recall. Some of the content may be mother and apple pie, a bit unfair to call it banal, but as always there was stuff which was either new, or presented in an interesting way. I did get my log book stamped (quite a large pasted in stamp). I am not aware if it can be used to reduce insurance, I doubt it, but it is a strong mitigating factor if one day you stumble into CAS, or have another lapse in airmanship which results in a conversation with the CAA.
So arguably a form of soft insurance. The airfield hosting it will also take note if you attend, and at the smaller airfields this helps in keeping your good standing as one of the resident pilots. i.e. goodwill credit
arguably a form of soft insurance
That’s a good point, aye it is. And yes, much of the presented text will be known, or even boring; but one can always hear something new. Also, it often helps to hear well known facts rehearsed in other words.
Myself have registered for a day of safety training with my national microlight federation – AFAIU it will be focussing on engine out landings and is sensibly organised at a little used military field with those endless hard runways. A good opportunity to catch up, I have long felt guilty about insufficiently training engine out incidents.
masterofnone wrote:
It’s often observed by people that their training (whether PPL, IMC or IR) stopped a long way short of being really useful. It taught the fundamentals, but not enough to empower one to really go places.
Well, repeat this often enough and people start believing it. It’s pure nonsense nonetheless. You cannot teach experience, currency, interest and personal skills to anyone no matter how hard you try. Some things we just have to do, based on the basics we have learned. No one will teach you how to travel around the world in a sail boat, you just have to do it when you feel ready and experienced enough. Just because some people gladly will take your money to “teach” you such things, does not mean you will learn what is needed. You cannot be teached how to be on your own and gain experience being on your own.
The only way is to fly, push the limits gradually. That and to talk to other people. Get into a community to share experiences.
I disagree, LeSving.
There are plenty of people who have plenty of confidence coupled with a large dose of ignorance and they might easily prevent themselves from getting into all sorts of trouble if they take the time to listen to others and learn from them, were such knowledge made available in a recognisable package such as a workshop.
I for one would certainly be happy to attend any such workshop as all of the ones I have attended in the past have offered me some new insight which I might not have discovered had I simply relied on “getting out there and doing it”. I am certainly not averse to it but my learning curve is dramatically steeper if I avail myself of the assistance of others.
In my professional life I describe myself as “in the 36th year of my apprenticeship” whilst others see me as a recognised expert.
As a 400 hour PPL I consider myself as only just started and will happily take all of the help I can get.
Stickandrudderman wrote:
I am certainly not averse to it but my learning curve is dramatically steeper if I avail myself of the assistance of others.
I agree 100% The important thing is to be within a community, to not be on your own. A workshop is a poor substitute, throwing money out the window essentially. The only value about such things is you meet other people with experience, but you don’t need to pay someone for that. Remember, we are talking about doing things that are well within the limits of a standard PPL regarding flying and navigational skills. I mean, exploring the possibilities of what this license allows us to do, is maybe the main reason to get this license in the first place. Some of it do require additional training and ratings (acro, IFR, sea etc), but I think we are on the wrong track when people start to feel they need some kind of “written permission” or a statement from “someone”, to fly to places they haven’t been before. It’s just plain wrong in my opinion, and there must be something terribly wrong with the initial training if pilots feel such needs, instead of feeling the freedom to explore and go wherever they want.
A PPL gives us the opportunity to act as Pilot In Command, to be the captain of the ship. There is only one to be good at it, and all the training in the world (in addition to the training needed for PPL) will not help you much.
People can do whatever they want of course, attend whatever workshop that seem appropriate. I just don’t see the point, when what they really need is to get out and fly and meet other pilots.
