Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Really need to fly high when IFR?

(“Le Touquet Tower good morning, G-ABCD inbound”) I was told to “report November Alpha”. I was pretty surprised as how short all the RT was and it seemed to me like most other people were doing the same. I guess it depends on who’s in the air when you arrive.

Welcome to “normal pratice” in most civilized countries. And it makes perfect sense… L2K has a) your flightplan and b) radar (plus nowadays most aircraft have Mode-S). There is really no need for more “UK style life stories” over the radio…

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

IMHO, the best time to fly to Le Touquet at weekends is as early in the day as possible. I try to land before 10am UK time. That beats most of the crowd. Getting back out may be busy but is relatively easy.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

If you arrive VFR, you get handed to the tower and they just throw you into the lion pit to sort yourself out, and some of the lions are speaking a funny language so there is no situational awareness

Yeah, I noticed that! This was my first time over the channel and I’d been told about how busy Le Touquet gets. It certainly was popular and pretty busy both on the radio and in the air. I did manage to work out what a couple of French-speakers were doing from my limited, schoolboy understanding of French. But it was somewhat less ‘controlled’ and a bit more of a free-for-all than I was expecting. However, it is class D and the controller treated it exactly as such – not the ‘class-A-like’ class D that we have in the UK

The standard of UK radio was absolutely appallingly atrocious

That’s interesting. Others have said the same thing (e.g. on Flyer). However, in the short time I was in their airspace, I found the RT to be pretty succinct. I didn’t have a chance to say all that much it was so busy. I was expecting the usual ‘who you are, where you are, what you want’ exchange but no sooner had I introduced myself (“Le Touquet Tower good morning, G-ABCD inbound”) I was told to “report November Alpha”. I was pretty surprised as how short all the RT was and it seemed to me like most other people were doing the same. I guess it depends on who’s in the air when you arrive.

Maybe catch you next time.

Last Edited by fattony at 07 May 17:17
Fairoaks, United Kingdom

Going for FL070-080 (say) means one can climb higher sooner, while still over land. Also there was cloud over the water and at 070 we were just above it. Justine (especially) doesn’t like being in cloud.

But the biggest reason is that if there is any “funny weather” at LFAT, you are already on an IFR clearance, and London Control hand you over to Lille automatically, and you get the ILS automatically. No need to call up Lille (which one would be doing in a bit of a rush, after having got the LFAT ATIS) and ask them for an IFR clearance – because you already have one. Being on an IFR flight plan means one is ahead of the game. On Saturday I actually got “forgotten” by Lille during vectoring (they were having a load of chat in French with somebody) and by the time they get around to me I was nearly at the runway, at 2000ft, so it would have meant vectors all the way back out over the sea again, so I asked for a visual approach (which is still a procedure under IFR).

You also get a somewhat better level of separation, which at LFAT is, ahem, always worth having on any half nice day If you arrive VFR, you get handed to the tower and they just throw you into the lion pit to sort yourself out, and some of the lions are speaking a funny language so there is no situational awareness

The standard of UK radio was absolutely appallingly atrocious, with phrases like “I will give you a buzz when…”. The controllers must go mad every weekend.

Sorry I missed you

Last Edited by Peter at 07 May 15:58
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

On a trivial trip out of the UK, say Shoreham to Le Touquet, I go Eurocontrol IFR at FL070.

Slight thread drift but what’s the reason for that Peter? Is it much simpler than flying VFR? Do you get better economy on such a short trip?

Incidentally, I think I saw you at Le Touquet. I was just arriving back at the airfield as you were starting up. I would’ve come over to say hello but you were departing.

Fairoaks, United Kingdom

That is quite interesting and a great opportunity to look at almost the same situation from different angles.

Kassel to Schönhagen is even a shorter flight than mine. How long did you stay up there?

Frequent travels around Europe

Yesterday I was on my way from EDAZ (Schönhagen) back to EDFC (Aschaffenburg) at FL70

At the same time I was heading in the opposite direction Kassel EDVK to Schoenhagen EDAZ. I did try my chance climbing on top. Above the freezing level I did pick very light ice so I switched from a cruise climb to a short full power climb. I became VMC at about FL150 and cruised at FL170 in the sun.

On the decent I picked up some light ice:

As Stephan shows this flight could have been done without a turbo but while he was going through the rain shower I was enjoying the bright sunshine above it wink:

Last Edited by Sebastian_G at 07 May 11:43
www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

Yesterday I was on my way from EDAZ (Schönhagen) back to EDFC (Aschaffenburg) at FL70. OAT was between 1C and 3C. I was initially asked to climb to FL80 but opted for FL70 as FL80 would have put me right inside the base of the clouds and there was some heavy precipitation further ahead. So I asked to stay south of it and decided to stay in positive temperatures as well. For about 5 minutes I was going through a section of rain that on the ADL was depicted in yellow. It was loud but there was no turbulence.

Much closer to Frankfurt I got “Advice when ready to climb” and I responded that I want to stay at FL70. Minutes before that I was given vectors for separation from military traffic. ATC was fine with me at FL70.

Had I accepted to climb I would probably have had to climb through the thin looking layer and then be at -2C or less at FL110. As I was about 50NM from my destination, I didn’t think that climb would have done any good to me.

Nobody complained and I continued on for some nice sunset view.

Frequent travels around Europe

PROB30 in a TAF can mean two vastly different things, the extremes of which are

1) Scattered stuff. 100% chance of CB but scattered enough not hit the airfield with more than 30% likelihood
2) Unlikely stuff. 30% chance of a front or air-mass taking off big time, and when it happens it will hit the airfield with certainty.

The former is the one where you need eyeballs or radar to avoid tactically, and the likelihood of arriving in one piece is very high.

The latter is where you need enough warning to turn around, and the likelihood to arrive is only 70% [higher if you survive the CB encounter…]

Quite a difference… I like (1), and hate (2).

Biggin Hill

The problem is that the forecaster is permitted only PROB30 or PROB40.

So, in the UK anyway, PROB30 is a shorthand for “I don’t think it will happen but it might and I need to cover my xxxx” and PROB40 is a shorthand for “I think it will probably happen”.

Also, any trough on the MSLP chart

translates to a PROB30 TEMPO TSRA (or similar) so there could be a CB forming, especially later in the day.

Last Edited by Peter at 06 May 12:15
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
36 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top