Strong crosswind landing, and techniques

Dave_Phillips wrote:

I’m with Timothy. Interestingly, our mutual MEP steed (the PA31) prefers a wing down landing technique; try that in a DA42/62 or a Baron and you’ll probably be modifying propellor blades, in a negative manner.

Dave, I’m not sure what you mean ref the DA42, could you elaborate?

… the way Lufthansa teaches it …

You mean like so:

I have no connection to LH whatsoever, but basically this is the same as I was taught and always have been teaching. Works well with everything I have flown so far. Just watch your wingtip clearance

Have you read the report about this incident? It was just unfortunate IMHO, there was a 10 kt wind change before touchdown if I remember correctly.

I don’t suppose it is logically possible for Lufthansa to make a mistake but to me that looks like either the crosswind suddenly and massively picked up (looking at the crab angle at say 100ft, from perhaps 30kt to 50-60kt; all the more rare because the wind shear and the resulting turning moment work in your favour during the flare) or the pilot pressed the wrong rudder pedal (been done many times, which is why some pilots exercise the “anticipated foot” while still on the approach).

Have you read the report about this incident?

Yes, of course. It was the usual chain of events. From choosing an inapropriate runway in the first place to letting an inexperienced copilot handle the controls in difficult conditions (most probably above company and/or manufacturer crosswind limits), not going around immediately when it started getting unstable to a possible low altitude change in wind (which I suspect was invented in an attempt to save some person’s face).
I just posted the video to show that
a) Lufthansa crews are mere mortals like everybody else and know nothing that we don’t know ourselves
and
b) every method of doing something only works within it’s limitations.

which is why some pilots exercise the “anticipated foot” while still on the approach).

That is the nub of my argument to get the correct control inputs in early.

I think we’re on the same page anyway. It doesn’t matter if you do it 10ft above ground or 100ft above ground. What I meant was flying the whole approach with wing down, i.e. starting at 500 or even 1000ft or more. I just think what they do with the airliners – aligning it with centerline after touchdown, with wheels on the ground and a lot of rubber burning in the process – doesn’t work with an SEP. It might work with an MEP where you have more inertia on the vertical axis due to the twin engines, but with an SEP I think we can agree it’s better to align the wheels with the centerline before touchdown…

Doesn’t that video simply show an known difficulty with the crab approach in strong winds?

A large application of rudder at the final moment, results in the up wind wing going faster all of a sudden, and the down wind wing slowing down. So you’ve extra lift on one side and reduced lift on the other.

The stronger the cross wind, then larger the crab angle, the larger the rudder input and therefore the larger the change in lift each side.

If you’ve a lot of crab that you need to kick off, then you need to apply some aileron to counteract this.

The pilot in this case, simply didn’t take account of that and apply the appropriate corrections before the effect was observed.

That’s one reason I prefer a method most people here don’t seem to like
I turn final at 500AGL, and sortly afterwards (maybe 400ft) I apply the wing down method. While it does indeed feel counterintuitive to passengers (and indeed to pilots who aren’t used to it) it has the advantage of allowing me to set up the control inputs in plenty of time, get used to the different feeling, and simply hold them steady the whole way down, through the approach, through the flare, and through the rollout. No great still is needed for the timing element, allowing me to take greater cross winds safely than most of my peers (who perfer to crab), with less skill than them.