You do not accept it if it is written somewhere else (like, in a proper legislative text, as I’ve just quoted to you)
That is not what I said, my aircraft and my pilot & radio licence rules are written in FAR & FCC…I only have to comply with aerdromes conditions or use (AIP or PPR) and rules of the air when going elsewhere
Just a side note, this is nothing to do with Germany: I speak French in N-reg in France using my FCC radio certificate, the French rules says you need CEPT by French PTT to operate radio and French LP by DGAC to speak French but after digging I come to conclude that these only apply to F-reg and DGAC PPL holders, my privileges are covered by international conventions…the same in Spain, what is different is in France or Spain, local pilots don’t talk with 100% certitude in pilot forums that “their holy local radio licence” is required for foreign aircraft, it’s only that some German pilots who pulls the national radio regs that apply to D-reg and claim with 100% certainty that these apply to foreign aircraft when speaking local language
There is nothing new to debate here, it’s the case in every country in EASA for LP: there is local language OR English (what FCL055 says), for RT: the radio licence is the one associated with the aircraft (what ICAO/EASA says), it’s not rocket science
If anyone has a problem with the leeway in international radio rules conventions, it’s easy “BZF obligatoire in aerodromes conditions of use in AIP” (that was my point earlier please let’s not talk about killing passengers by pression PTT buttons, we don’t do that elsewhere neither)
The recognition of such licenses can be restricted to the usage of the English language.
Of course, that would be the case for use by “foreign licenced operators” in German airfield towers? or D-reg aircrafts?
In the other hand Bundesnetzagentur has no authority AT ALL on “foreign aircraft” radio stations, they just have to accept it “as is”
Anyway, I gave up, you changed my mind: it’s illegal to fly in D-reg and speak German without German BZF in Germany, hence, likely illegal in N-reg by some voodo magic rules…I will still do it without BZF on FCC, I will stop when that restriction gets add to German only airfields conditions of use
Airborne_Again wrote:
To be fair I, not Ibra, was the one who was 100% certain – and I was certain that “there are international conventions waiving any requirements on needing national radio licenses in international air traffic.” I then went on to ask if these conventions were limited to use of radio in the English language. It’s quite possible that they are. It was an honest question, really.
Apologies for the misquotation!
Airborne_Again wrote:
But the interesting thing is that if the text of the FlugfunkV §14 is to be taken ad notam, then pilots in international CAT will have to check with the Bundesnetzagentur before flying to or over Germany that their particular radio licenses are recognised. Somehow I don’t think that’s what actually happens.
That is a very fair and good question that also came to my mind when I read the paragraph.
Ibra wrote:
That is not what I said, my aircraft and my pilot & radio licence rules are written in FAR & FCC…I only have to comply with aerdromes conditions or use (AIP or PPR) and rules of the air when going elsewhere
Of course you have to comply with any laws applicable in a certain territory, regardless of your means of transport.
Of course you have to comply with any laws applicable in a certain territory
I agree but this is only applicable to rules of the air, operational rules and rules of aerodromes…pilot and radio licencing in foreign aircraft is covered by international conventions (this a simple fact not an opinion)
The aircraft I fly is certified IFR by FAA and complies with NCO equipment carriage…I don’t have to comply with conditions to get an equivalent LBA CoFA? or pay Bundesnetzagentur fee for it’s radio? or tag it “VFR only” when in Germany?
If there is anything special about BZF in German only airfields, it has to be in the laws of these airfields not attached to US aircraft airframes or FAA/FCC pilot papers…there are plenty of examples of airfields that are restricted in their use in their airfield regulations (e.g. ILS in Sion require additional crew licencing with additional aircraft certification by FOCA, this makes sense as this restriction is clearly written in the airfield AIP AD )
If anyone cares to undergo the proper recognition process for their foreign radiotelephony license, the document for that can be found here and it needs to be addressed to the Bundesnetzagentur in Mühlheim :
Bundesnetzagentur
- Flugfunkzeugnisse -
Solinger Str. 16
D-45481 Mühlheim
GERMANY
Tel. +49 208 4507-0
E-Mail: [email protected]
The fees for recognition seem to be 43€ if you don’t require an additional exam and 82€ if you do, which is ultimately decided by the Bundesnetzagentur as per the linked .pdf
Edit: Note that R/T licenses from other EU member states are automatically recognised.
Trying to help as well, if anyone looking to regularise their aircraft radio and pilot radio situation for flying operations in UK airspace, they should get in touch with Ofcom to obtain the aircraft radio station licence and get in touch with CAA to get FRTOL (issued on behalf of Ofcom for 79£)
Having English language proficiency is not enough, these are separate radio licensing rules in UK by Ofcom
https://applications.caa.co.uk/CAAPortal/servlet/SmartForm.html?formCode=PVI
One may think of this as silly gold-plating that load of aircraft & pilot will be happy to ignore when flying on foreign radio papers, actually India did it 10 years ago by invalidating ICAO radio papers of all airliners operators when they privatised “their frequencies”, they still put that in their AIP and confirmed it applies to Canadian & American Airlines 
Trying to help as well, if anyone looking to regularise their aircraft radio and pilot radio situation for flying operations in UK airspace, they should get in touch with Ofcom to obtain the aircraft radio station licence and get in touch with CAA to get FRTOL (issued on behalf of Ofcom for 79£)
This is meaningless.
If you’ve got UK pilot papers then you will have a UK radio license within your UK CAA papers. This is not optional; to get a UK PPL you need to pass the oral test. You do not need anything else.
Same with an FAA PPL… nowadays it states ENGLISH PROFICIENT, and for flight outside US airspace you separately obtain a personal FCC license, and an aircraft-specific radio license.
If you are non-European and flying a non-European reg plane in Europe then your need for UK or European papers will depend on this which is the Brussels-driven (since 2011) attack on (mainly) US registered aircraft, which the EU supposedly fully adopted (derogations stopped) in June 2022 (although despite asking many times I have not found anybody here confirming this – even those who I am certain do know who for some reason won’t post it) and the UK adopted it separately in Dec 2021. Reading this between the lines – as pilots like to do – you need the respective EU or UK “radio papers” also, but the Brussels (or UK CAA) reg doesn’t say that. In the UK case you can’t avoid it because as I say a UK PPL comes with it.
But the above is only if the above regulation applies i.e. if the “operator” is judged EU based. This was never defined, and the whole reg has never been enforced.
The Ofcom thing is a radio license, for a G-reg aircraft.
The Ofcom thing is a radio license, for a G-reg aircraft.
Why Ofcom can’t regulate D-reg flying in UK ?
Well, the UK is one of those old fashioned countries where something is not a crime unless, ahem, it is in the criminal law
80 posts here so far…
