At least when it comes to entry level pay, a tram driver in Switzerlands earns more than a copilot at Swiss
And you won’t have to pay your own training and start out with over 100K out-of-pocket as a tram driver.
If you compare it to the NHS, I think you can make almost every other job look good. 
Didn’t they just stage a strike?
On a bit of a tangent, surely you can do a CPL/IR (what is called a “frozen ATPL”) for far less than 80-100k?
PPL – 10k
CB IR – 15k
CPL – 5k
ME conversion – 5k
14 exams – 1k
What am I missing?
I realise most of the ATPL cadets don’t know this (because they are new to aviation and don’t have the contacts) and probably, especially if reading posts on certain forums which are made anonymously by FTO owners, slagging off certain other routes and claiming that only a graduate of FTO xxx will get a job, etc, they are scared of taking a different route even if they knew about it.
Also of course there is much more motivation if you are living in a hotel with many other students, do the assignments together, drink together, etc. It would be hard to do it alone unless you can live at home all along, and most people are too far from a suitable FTO for that.
no expensive divorces in their past
Well, that is the key to a good life. I was most fortunate in that my business had some very good years after I got divorced, but someone working in a job would not have had that option. Once you get wiped out in your older years, you will never really recover.
Isn’t there a famous U.S. statistics according to which airline pilots outlive their retirement by 6 months only on average?
That would be true for most professions – a peak in deaths shortly (about 2 years) after retirement seems common. You suddenly lose such a big chunk of your life and its meaning…
My son, will be leaving school next year. Looking at all options, but he wishes to fly. We were at a flight school open day. £108k, for the integrated route to ATPL. 65K, for a modular/university/job at the end route. He is also currently applying to Air Force/Navy/Army,
These are large sums, but courses appear well attended?? The issue for a lot of guys is that they are chewed out at the end, having spent very large sums of money that they do not have, bank of Mum and Dad, generally, and still with no type rating, and few hours in their log book.
Plenty of instructors milling about, young age, low hours, frozen ATPL, with little prospect of a job. And yet, global shortage of pilots, being predicted. Something is not quite right.
Plenty of instructors milling about, young age, low hours, frozen ATPL, with little prospect of a job. And yet, global shortage of pilots, being predicted. Something is not quite right.
What I hear is that those who do really well on their sim check and are presentable in the interview get picked off by the airlines, and the rest is what you see everywhere.
I would really like to hear views on my cost question above, because my younger son is looking at something like that.
Funny, there was a similar discussion at Vansairforce some years ago. Could an experienced RV pilot become an Air Force pilot? The answer from the air force pilots at the site was Njet. It had nothing to do with skills or anything, but discipline (on all levels) and economy. When you have passed 30 you simply cannot be trained to accept the level of discipline required for an air force pilot. Also, when passing 30 (and you are still in the air force), you are expected to teach fresh 20 year olds the discipline required.
Truth is that the price for an ATPL and a prospective career in aviation, is much cheaper than a fancy university degree for anything else. So it can still potentially be a good deal.
Peter wrote:
I would really like to hear views on my cost question above, because my younger son is looking at something like that.
The CB-IR for 15k is not realistic. The course itself with minimum training hours may cost that much. But first you have to build enough competence (the “C” in CB) for which you will have to pay on your own by renting aircraft for something like 50 hours.
I think the best option would be this:
1. PPL + night rating
2. IMC rating (15 hours)
3. Hour build + build up instrument hours
4. MEP Course (7hrs)
5. ME CBIR with IMC credit: 10hrs
6. CPL training reduced with IR credit: 15hrs
If you have access to an aircraft to do the hour building/IFR time this route could get you to an ME CPL/IR in 47hrs PUT after PPL. CPL and MEP test can be combined to reduce costs too.
AdamFrisch wrote:
Truth is that the price for an ATPL and a prospective career in aviation, is much cheaper than a fancy university degree for anything else. So it can still potentially be a good deal.
That depends on where in the world you live. In the States, flying is cheap and universities are expensive. Around here, university costs nothing and flying is expensive…
Myself I have done both. During the university years you will have to pay for your living, nothing else. There are grants for children of families with low income, subsidised student homes, subsidised food. After two or three semesters one can usually get a small job at the university as tutor or scientific aide (that’s what I did for many years) covering a substantial portion of your living cost (or paying for car/holidays/whatever extracurricular activity one likes to do). If you stay for some postgraduate stuff, you either get paid for that or can apply for a grant, so from then on your are financially on your own.
My son will finish school next year. If he goes to university I calculate that this will cost us something like 500 Euros a month for five years, or 30,000 Euros in total. (Unless of course he wants to do a year at Harward in between…). That money will only buy half of the ATPL at best, whatever course scheme one wants to do.
Anyway, if he wants to work in aviation, I will try and talk him out of becoming a pilot. Aviation laywer, air traffic controller, aerospace engineer, doctor/AME – all these are a lot better.
Peter wrote:
PPL – 10k
CB IR – 15k
CPL – 5k
ME conversion – 5k
14 exams – 1k
For comparison, here in the Czech Republic, one of the least expensive EU countries for flight training, the current prices are as follows:
PPL – quoted price 5-6k€ for the requisite 45 hours
Classical IR (not CB) – 6.5k
CPL – 2.3k
ME – 2.5k + ME/IR conversion 2k
14 exams – 0.2k
