Glass cockpit vs steam gauges for low time PPL (and getting into a fast aircraft early on)

Peter wrote:

I don’t know whether it is what in Europe we call mogas or whether it is petrol from a petrol station. Also just because a club uses it doesn’t mean you can get it as a visitor. @petakas or @atmilatos may know more.

Petrol from a Petrol station in Greece provided you trust the supplier.
Yes for a visitor the logistics are tricky, I don’t know the details where, how, when etc.
As a based operator its easier to arrange it because they have all the time in the world and on a face to face meeting beforehand opportunity.

Last info. I had on that was from an aircraft that recently got MOGAS in FRAPORT Kefalonia LGKF.
I learned about it when I queried an 110 Euro (with VAT) charge for FIRE BRIGADE services.
When I asked them why the F.B. service in the handler’s invoice, the pilot emailed me that it was due to MOGAS refueling.

I’ve been reading this thread with growing interest. The thought-train in the aircraft buying process is vast in both scope and depth. I know this from my own experience and I don’t live anywhere like Cyprus with all the extra caveats this brings. Here are my thoughts on your situation.

You’ve not yet finished your PPL so haven’t had a chance to get out flying by yourself and find out what sort of flying you really want to do or will enjoy. I’ve not long finished PPL school and already I get bored just bimbling around; I need a real reason to fly. What I am trying to say is that rushing into something could cost you dearly in both money and time in correcting that decision. Take it steady.

Given that you are surrounded by countries that are probably not very GA friendly you are forced to do all your flying in one direction and over a long water crossing. Once over that stretch of water AVGAS is widely acknowledged to be quite difficult to come by. The arguments for a fast, reliable and Jet-A1 powered aircraft are very compelling IMHO. You’ll soon get frustrated if you have to spend long hours getting to Greece before you can actually start going where you actually want to go. How big is your family and how old? You’ve made several references to them probably not wanting to go on flights with you unless it is akin to airline standards. If they won’t go with you then this will limit how much return you’ll get from your investment.

From the above you have, sensibly, identified that a TBM, M600, PC-12 etc. is you objective. So how to get there if you need 500 hours? A Diamond twin has to be a very good fit for a stepping stone. Yes, there are diesel single pistons out there but I don’t think they are that common (think maintenance in Cyprus) or fast enough and how reliable are they considered to be? With a DA42 or -62 you can do some very rewarding trips all over Greece and further afield to clock up those hours. They are nice planes, comparatively easy to fly and perhaps your wife/family would be happy to give it a try. Use it to get your IR which will be a must for turbo-props. Speak to Diamond if you have concerns over their suitability to the Cypriot climate.

Ok, so how to get the 70 hours to get your MEP? Why not rent or lease a small SEP (172, DA40 etc.) from the European mainland and do some trips? You’d get to 70 hours quickly and learn a hell of a lot about the type of flying you like and places you like to go WITHOUT spending a huge bundle of money on a plane that you might find doesn’t fit, AND, by doing so keep your options open and flexibility intact. Rent/lease one with similar glass to the Diamond twin to ease the MEP conversion and get it from somewhere easy to reach from Cyprus.

Please do keep us posted on what you eventually decide.

Here is a thread on a similar topic – flying with the family.

JasonC wrote:

I went to a turboprop at 430 hours and it wasn’t simple re insurance. It can be done earlier but you will be forced to fly with a mentor pilot for 50-100 hours.

If you are aiming for a “real” turboprop, a Cessna P210 Silver Eagle (or maybe a Extra 500) can be a good intermediate stepping stone. It is a turboprop, but handles mostly like the sub-2t light airplane it is. And I got insurance covering a 100h total time pilot (not PIC time! total time on fixed wings; to be pedantic, this was due to a misunderstanding with the insurance, as I actually had 200h total time), under condition of only the first 25h being dual with instructor, and any other pilot having at least 200h and 25h turboprop time. It won’t be your “last plane” if you are thinking TBM/PC12 class later on, but you can get in it relatively fast after your PPL.

About renting a “transitional aircraft” like a C182/SR22/…, if no local availability, I’d think about renting by the month rather than per hour. I’d look at sales ads and ask about renting the airplane for like 3 months to 1 year, the time needed for my hour building. Unless the seller really wants the pile of cash fast, it can be a good business proposition for hir (but not necessarily for the broker…).

Valentin wrote:

I have never flown a Diamond (and never even sat inside), but I can see it from the photos that it must be damn hot in the cockpit under the intense sun

You can use something like this:

We have one in the Faeta (bubble canopy) and it is effective (the few days it is needed here a lot this summer actually). The sun is stronger at Cyprus, but it cannot possible be worse than Texas ?

The DA40 is not that bad. I have flown the DA40 down through Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia in summer . On the ground you can leave the canopy cracked open (position 1). Once airborne you have plenty of ventilation. I believe you also get tinted windows aft of the pilot.

I believe there are worse airplanes in the sun, like the DR400 and a number of bubble canopy planes. Some of them have a levelour like the one in the previous photo.

On my current plane I cannot open the doors on the ground so A/C is the only way to keep it cool.

It may be worth analysing the airport options for this specific scenario.

Out of Cyprus you will more or less have to fly via Greece. Africa you can forget, and Turkey is pricey and really for masochists unless you have military connections. And most of Greece’s ports of entry have been taken over by Fraport and – unless you want to pay the €300-400 ripoffs – this clobbers both jet-a1 and avgas options equally.

I would argue that the most suitable Greek stops are the same for jet-a1 and avgas: Sitia LGST and Ionina LGIO.

If you want to tour Greece, stop at Sitia and then you can do all the wonderful islands, most of which have not (yet) been consumed by Fraport and most never will be because they don’t make money. And Sitia on the way back.

If you want to go skiing, stop at Ionina and then you can do the Alps (any Greek airport is a schengen stop; the fact that Greece itself does not operate the treaty is a problem only at the Greek end ). And Ionina or Sitia on the way back.

Regarding hot cockpits, this can indeed be horrible on the ground but once you get flying it rapidly sorts itself out as you open the vents at 140kt+. The only exceptions I found were in Spain and Italy where (VFR) ATC, and the vast Italian Class A, forced me down to 1000ft for 1hr+ and that was really hot, +35C in the cockpit. Around Greece, VFR is normal at 7000ft+ which is always going to be cool. The DA40 or DA42 should not normally get sun directly onto your face which is unpleasant in any case

Aircon in SEPs tends to be a substandard engineering solution, using components from the 1950s American car scene, and frequently breaks down. Of planes I looked at which had it, perhaps 50% needed a repair. It’s like European and Japanese cars in the 1980s; they had unreliable aircon too, with the stuff leaking out at least once a year IME. American cars had it working reliably by the 1970s, mainly via “heavy engineering”, and modern cars are ok.