‘Planes are different, you’ve got to get the feel of each. When I was checked out on the Tiger Moth on skis, I was setting up for turn to base. I closed the throttle, and it promptly stalled, and dropped the nose. It slowed so quickly, and I had not pushed the stick forward to force the nose down. My check pilot in the back just laughed!
Ibra wrote:
Even if you trim to fly level near VS, say it is flying level at VS+5kts on 80% power and you go 100% power?
A little, but not a lot. The nose doesn’t go up or down with added power, it just stays where is was, more or less, in comparison to my previous Luscombe and Cessna experience.
When I first got it in 2010, I inadvertently ended up on a low extended base leg at speed well over cruise because I was watching for merging downwind traffic and meanwhile adding power to arrest a sink rate. It didn’t go like I expected… and the lack of aural feedback from the CS prop didn’t alert me to high airspeed. In the end I looked at the ASI, closed the throttle and pulled the stick back to climb to the intended height and speed. I learned about flying from that 
On that plane, you have to use both power and elevator to arrest sink whereas on my Luscombe you just added power and the sink rate stopped without elevator input.
Silvaire wrote:
My current plane does not typically raise its nose with application of power,
Even if you trim to fly level near VS, say it is flying level at VS+5kts on 80% power and you go 100% power?
I would be surprised nose goes down and speed increases, it will makes the ideal aircraft for power ON stall recoveries with more power, no need to move stick forward to install it 
My current plane does not typically raise its nose with application of power, but the elevator trim is virtually as powerful as the elevator control on many planes and could be used to land the plane.
Malibuflyer wrote:
What exactly is the requirement?
Sec. 23.145
Longitudinal control.
………
(e) By using normal flight and power controls, except as otherwise noted in paragraphs (e)(1) and (e)(2) of this section, it must be possible to establish a zero rate of descent at an attitude suitable for a controlled landing without exceeding the operational and structural limitations of the airplane, as follows:
(1) For single-engine and multiengine airplanes, without the use of the primary longitudinal control system.Quote
Silvaire wrote:
It’s hard to understand how that is done with both power reduction and flaps provoking a nose down trim change.
Flaps provoke a nose down pitch when extended (Cessna 150), and power application will raise the nose. The two forces can be used in opposition to each other. I just did this a few minutes ago to the top of the flare with no problem. Pedals, throttle and flaps only. It wasn’t quite the quoted 172 procedure (as I was not intending to land without applying elevator control) but from cruise at 80 MPH, zero flap, to top of flare 55MPH 40 flap without touching the control wheel nor elevator trim – no problem.
I do think you’d want to leave flaps at one setting while attempting to land with no elevator.
Beyond that, I’ll just say that not all aircraft respond in the way described to adding power. My current plane has very little coupling between power and AoA at any speed – it just accelerates or decelerates, even at low airspeed. Very different for a guy who learned to fly in a Luscombe that would slow down and climb (increase AoA) with increased power in almost any circumstance, due to downwash on the tail, unless you retrimmed.
Pilot_DAR wrote:
Many Cessna POH’s describe the procedure.
Cessna 172S:
LANDING WITHOUT ELEVATOR CONTROL
Trim for horizontal flight with an airspeed of approximately 65 KIAS and flaps set to 20° by using throttle and elevator trim controls. Then do not change the elevator trim control setting; control the glide angle by adjusting power…..
How trim change and yoke forces shift with flaps & power is usually hard to understand, as it depends on where you are vs min drag speed and which side of the drag curve you are? I think if you trim on min-drag speed cruise, 1/ if you go bellow min-drag speed then as you add power & drag flap the aircraft will naturally slow down and increase it’s ROD if you keep min-drag speed trim, 2/ if you go above min drag speed then as you add power & clean flap the aircraft will naturally accelerate and increase it’s ROD if you keep min-drag speed trim, 3/ to move between one or other you need a firm pull/push on the stick
Clipperstorch wrote:
To sum it up, I think noise is often used as the target of a complaint because it is socially accepted to complain about noise when in fact it’s not the real, underlying reason.
Many years ago the Motorcycle Industry Council in the US used the slogan “Less Sound More Ground” to pacify people who didn’t like off road motorcycling. It was obvious to me then as now that this was nonsense, the reality was that the opposition didn’t like motorcycles in principle, had a completely different and awful world view that would like to eliminate them, and that zero sound would not be enough reduction. I suspect the MIC knew that too, and that this was just propaganda in parallel with direct efforts against people who opposed their interests. At some point you realize that life unavoidably involves conflict with people with views you fundamentally oppose, and who would like to eliminate what you hold dear. You might disarm them with slogans like that, but you have to fight them if you want to maintain your position. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty – because there are some people whose genuine preference is for all to ‘live’ in a way that is not much better than being dead, and who are intolerant of those who have a better attitude towards life.
Pilot_DAR wrote:
I sometimes entertain myself in my 150, trimming at about 80 MPH, then hands off the control wheel, and gently adjusting power and flaps all the way down final, so as to arrive to the threshold at about 60 MPH, without having used elevator nor elevator trim at all
It’s hard to understand how that is done with both power reduction and flaps provoking a nose down trim change.
Pilot_DAR wrote:
gently adjusting power and flaps all the way down final,
changing flaps is like changing trim
Pilot_DAR wrote:
It’s a design requirement for GA planes that this must be possible, though it’s a bit more on the advance skills side of things….
What exactly is the requirement?
