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The EIR - beginning to end (merged)

why should everyone feel like they should obtain this rating to get around ATC issues

Welcome to aviation in Europe

Isn’t a better alternative to lobby ATC or the regulator to return such airspace to Class B or below (or parts thereof) where the traffic intensity and complexity of the operation does not justify it?

No way will this ever happen. GA has close to zero effective representation in Europe.

The USA sees no need to have Class A airspace below FL195 and they have some very busy and complex airspace.

The USA has a can-do attitude, and effective political representation for GA. BTW, Class A is actually 18000ft and above in the USA.

Only a few reasons for the EIR…

Point very well made

When I look at these completely outrageous airspace maps, I see the result of turf wars between each national air force and the national CAA, with a load of committee job creation on top. It looks totally bizzare.

Yeah, you can get clearance through a lot of it but you never know which bit on which day. At weekends it works a lot better, but that just means that if you fly out on a weekend, you will need to fly back home on Monday in a very different way.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I agree that the restricted airspace in Belgium/NE France and SE and SW France is completely ludicrous and really could do with huge amounts of simplification. Similar with some other areas across Europe.

But when you’re talking to FIS/ATC anyway even when VFR it’s generally easy to transit. I have yet been cleared through half of the most complex restricted areas and not the other half while made to fly under “own navigation”.

Poland is also easy below FL95 – have you tried applying a filter to your chart?

No way will this ever happen. GA has close to zero effective representation in Europe.

I disagree. It all comes down to resourcing – where the GA community wants to pay and put in the time for representation. Given the people who are actually actively involved I’d say they do a pretty good job. They did a superb job at introducing the CBM IR / EIR, for example.

Last Edited by James_Chan at 24 Sep 16:18
When I look at these completely outrageous airspace maps, I see the result of turf wars between each national air force and the national CAA, with a load of committee job creation on top. It looks totally bizzare.

I am so happy I’m based in Sweden…..

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

When I was considering the EIR as an extension to my IMCr, I didnt actually think it would be the full set of TK required for a full IR.

On the other hand, I was thinking it was stupid allowing someone to upgrade from an IMCr and be in with the big boys without the same level of knowledge, so I can understand it.

So, given the choice, and if I was going to do an upgrade (I probably wont), I wouldnt do the EIR. Sure, with my IMCr, it would grant better privileges in the UK. However for travelling in Europe, I would go straight for the CBIR and if I didnt have enough hours logged in IFR, well I would just do them.

Last Edited by PiperArcher at 25 Sep 09:04

Hard to know how usable an EIR is in Europe – I have my doubts but then I don’t have enough experience of the UK IMC rating to properly judge that either. For some it may be plenty.

I do think now though that the CB-IR is a very accessible and achievable instrument rating and is of course a better choice if you budget and time allow you to stretch for it.

EGTK Oxford

Anybody signed up for the new TK distance learning?

pmh
www.ekbr.dk, Denmark

I would go for the CB IR too, skipping the EIR. I have done VFR touring, lots of it, all the way down to Crete, and would not want to give up full IFR capability for anything. Even in CAVOK conditions it’s much easier.

However

I was thinking it was stupid allowing someone to upgrade from an IMCr and be in with the big boys without the same level of knowledge, so I can understand it.

it’s worth noting that you are not really:

  • light GA flies enroute nowhere near the big stuff – the two pics I posted the other day from my 27.5hr trip were the only other aircraft seen, and I saw almost nothing on my 15nm-range TCAS (and airliners do show up well on that because they have properly installed transponders)
  • the big stuff is flown by ATPs who have either done the 14 ATPL exams (estimated about 2x the work of the 7-exam JAA IR and maybe 2.2x the work of the 7-exam CB IR) or they are flying on another ICAO ATPL whose theory doesn’t compare with the CB IR one and the EASA PPL one combined
  • the theory is forgotten long before they get anywhere near a jet RHS, never mind a LHS

That’s why I think the CB IR theory is another missed opportunity. I guess it had to be done that way however because the old JAA IR is politically long-term accepted and with the CB IR they can rightfully state that the syllabus has not been totally butchered as it would have to be to be useful for GA IFR flying

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

A thought.

I’m a commercial pilot and now fly as a flight calibrator, the chap who has fun flying endless approaches, profiles, top/bottom cuts etc in a ‘non-standard’ (180kts gear-up) manner at busy/very busy international airports. Next week I will being doing this job in a number of non-EASA but ICAO states where we will be mixing with a very busy stream of commercial aircraft. I do this on the back of a CBIR. Should the TK syllabus really be thinned out?

Last Edited by Dave_Phillips at 27 Sep 17:45
Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom

I’m a commercial pilot and now fly as a flight calibrator, the chap who has fun flying endless approaches, profiles, top/bottom cuts etc in a ‘non-standard’ (180kts gear-up) manner at busy/very busy international airports. Next week I will being doing this job in a number of non-EASA but ICAO states where we will be mixing with a very busy stream of commercial aircraft. I do this on the back of a CBIR. Should the TK syllabus really be thinned out?

What part of the TK syllabus do you seriously think has anything to do with you flying approaches to busy commercial airports??

EGTK Oxford

Most of it. How about the bit where we also mix it at FL250 with airliners when doing VOR/Radar calibration? Or the rest of PANS-OPS criteria?

The CBIR is a mechanism to attain an internationally recognised rating whereby you can mix-it with IFR traffic anywhere in the world. The only limitation is that you need to have additional knowledge if you want to get an ATPL (in essence operate in multi-crew environment). Personally, I think the level of knowledge required is about right. We can argue about the content.

Last Edited by Dave_Phillips at 27 Sep 19:07
Fly safely
Various UK. Operate throughout Europe and Middle East, United Kingdom
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