Peter wrote:
Yes Friedrichshafen is ok. Not necessarily quick, IME, because you have to go through the airline terminal. Maybe someone has a recent report.
Just posted it. Not the quickest.
Sebastian_G wrote:
What really needs improving is the efficiency of those operations.
I agree. Keeping airports open as employment schemes is very inefficient. I wonder if there is a better way to keep them open and viewed by the community as a useful infrastructure.
I don’t think they make money overall. It is just an “employment scheme”. The two policemen who laboriously check your passports before a flight from Sitia to Karpathos (!) are each on perhaps 40-50k but they have little to do all day so they have to bill each sucker passing through a lot of money.
Greece works differently to N Europe. In N Europe, if a business has 100 people and doesn’t need 20 of them, it chucks out the 20 and they end up on social security where they rot. In Greece, there is a recognition that keeping all 100 employed is better socially, especially as they have extended families in which many are not working and are being supported by those who are working.
Obviously the above is an over-simplification (e.g. the 20 made redundant don’t actually “rot”; only some do, while the rest will find other jobs) but you get the idea. In Greece, every person with a job is supporting a whole load of others, beyond their immediate family, and thus avoiding them having to claim social security. Or maybe they claim social security anyway 
but at a lower level.
Overall, Greece is fairly easy to fly GA around, because they speak English, and crucially the ground staff speak English which is really not the case in some countries further north. The biggest planning challenge is probably the airport opening times.
petakas wrote:
Its a ripoff.
I am not even sure. I was in the handling office at LGKR and there are so many people there doing whatever, it is just amazing. As a small business owner I assume the whole thing is just so inefficient that we are charged a lot but they still do not make much money on it. About 2 years ago I was at LGZA and it was similar. We paid about 260 Euro for two nights but we did employ so many people in the whole process. I think they did not make much money. What really needs improving is the efficiency of those operations.
Snoopy wrote:
Above all this useless rule is a major safety hazard. Forcing pilots to fly additional routes and match timetables under stress and pressure to then undergo „on paper only“ procedures (as in practice nothing is done anyway eg customs not even showing up).
There is no benefit (security, customs, whatever) at all warranting to stupidly obey this ridiculous rule.
+1
I cannot agree more and have been working since years ago on this topic. I just opened a new thread on it.
Thanks for the explanation. I’m planning Greece trip in spring before high season probably via Kythira and then few neighbouring islands.
Emir you misunderstood me !
I’m not defending crooks. We’re on the same page.
I replied solely on the issue of whether the invoices are with one single item charge or with break down of what is charged for what.
I fully agree its a ripoff for services not properly provided.
The passenger Airport Tax is a state fee. The state charges that (12 € per pax) even on airline passengers’ tickets.
Disbursement fee is ridiculous (the fee for the handler to pay the third party). In practice you can do it yourself in the airport or via web banking but it involves waiting for people who are not in their office or admin. work by a pilot who is not in dispatcher/admin. mood when flying to destination for work or vacations.
I am sure Handling companies do not pay CAA, Fraport, Customs, etc. on each flight. For sure they make bulk payments per month automatically to authorities/Fraport which makes the disbursement fee ridiculous since they will not do the whole process to pay each one separately for just few Euro per EACH GA flight visit.
Admin. fee is another name for “Credit card fee” since they cannot legally state it any more. (i.e. if you pay cash there is no such fee).
Parking arrangement is another charge invention (by handlers) for Fraport airports since Handlers are obliged to coordinate with airport authority who parks where and when.
Slot arrangement for IFR is the worse, since they charge some 40€+VAT το issue/administer your IFR slot.
They know most of us cannot administer it privately via Eurocontrol and hence they charge at will.
Regarding Fraports and Handlers, even for the regular PPR on a VFR Flight, if you declare and get it approved for XX:XX arrival and later – for whatever reason re-notify for later arrival or arrive considerably later without notifying … you’ll get charged for a new PPR request. Its a ripoff.
Oh someone has new invoicing software 
Handling below €100 is ok. However, there’s “Passenger Airport Tax” regardless listing only crew above and of course disbursement and administration fees. Obviously it was VFR flight, avoiding slot management fee but parking arrangement fee was charged.
Do you know any other country besides Greece when handler charges you for sending slot messages (each message is charged as @Peter can confirm)? Or where “parking arrangement” is charged besides parking fee itself?
I appreciate your efforts and helping GA pilots flying in Greece (myself included, thanks again) but let’s not defend ripping off.
Sebastian_G wrote:
In the end everything did work out, everybody is super nice, things just do not work as efficiently as in northern Europe.
Couldn’t describe Handling Services in Greece better ! (including the rest of your description).
